Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: pat on March 16, 2013, 08:54:29 PM
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I appreciate reading good debate... I am not seeking approval nor interested in disapproval.
this is my view on the Vll church.
(as i have stated i was raised pre vll sacraments received including confirmation parents stopped going when i was 10.... i started attending protestant churches at 17 in the 70's it was a different time as holiness and sin were still preached everywhere...
i took the gospels seriously....
as i grew older the "bless me" gospel increased i knew it was a distortion of the word of God...
i returned to what i thought was the Catholic church the year benedict was elected.
slowly i saw a protestant church with a catholic form.
what was the clincher for me was when a study was given at the church was The Purpose Driven Life)
it is important that we know the scriptures as well as we know tradition to stand against hersey.
this is ll corinthians 6:14 Duay Rheims
Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? [15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?
i could no longer attend NO knowing that I was no longer in full agreement with those I attend Mass with (how did I know.... it was enough to see bumper stickers supporting politicians who support abortion)
(and unless you are suffering weekly at NO because you have no other option and no Latin Mass anywhere near you. ...not interested in hearing why I should)
ecuŠ¼enical services where absolutely out of the question even when I tolerated NO
it is my observance and research as how this vll who calls itself Catholic
cannot be. in my opinion this is not the real Church... because of the destruction of worshipping God in reverance , that the Sacrifice of the Mass is an entertainment event. (trust me.... on a Palm Sunday... I witnessed a mime play with Jesus played by a girl, with them slowing going down the isle to hosanna heysona from Jesus Christ Superstar)
thus refer to scripture above.
I believe we the real Church are in "hiding" (those who have no Mass to attend) and those who are blessed to have the Latin Mass but,persecution in doing so.
I believe all those involved in NO should be kept in prayer.. to be rescued from this deception. (God graced you and I and there are others who will "awaken" too.)
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Thanks for your journey story, I wonder, would you know why it was that you saw this truth while others can't?
For me Vatican II started when I was in my early 20's, married and having the little ones, every other year. My husband and I moved from Illinois to California in the early 60's and I thought it was just California where the Church seemed to be watered down. Yet I was "too busy" to do the research.
To make a long story short, I started to pray the rosary and wear my crumbled scapular I found in a shoe box, at home one day while cleaning the closet. I started to read Tan books, and my eyes started to open but didn't know where to turn. Prayed harder for my children after all they were growing up and the Church meant little to them. I could see that! In spite of my trying to instruct them.
One day God led me to a lecture given by C.M.R.I. and that was the beginning of my return to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith. Now, all 22 of my grandchildren have been Baptised through C.M.R.I. and I wonder where they would be today, if I didn't act on the actual grace that was given me during that lecture.
Isn't it strange how a choice one makes, will effect future generations on down.
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I hope I can say that someday all 22 of my grandchildren are baptized, you are blessed in that Myrna.
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I hope I can say that someday all 22 of my grandchildren are baptized, you are blessed in that Myrna.
Absolutely, we will pray for your grandbabies and belief Mabel!
Patti
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Indeed we will pray for each other!
Every morning when I wake up, I have a special prayer that I pray for all the people I promised I would pray for. Of course I can't remember all of them, but God knows who they are, so be assured of prayers coming your way Mabel and Pat.
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Thanks for your journey story, I wonder, would you know why it was that you saw this truth while others can't?
For me Vatican II started when I was in my early 20's, married and having the little ones, every other year. My husband and I moved from Illinois to California in the early 60's and I thought it was just California where the Church seemed to be watered down. Yet I was "too busy" to do the research.
To make a long story short, I started to pray the rosary and wear my crumbled scapular I found in a shoe box, at home one day while cleaning the closet. I started to read Tan books, and my eyes started to open but didn't know where to turn. Prayed harder for my children after all they were growing up and the Church meant little to them. I could see that! In spite of my trying to instruct them.
One day God led me to a lecture given by C.M.R.I. and that was the beginning of my return to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith. Now, all 22 of my grandchildren have been Baptised through C.M.R.I. and I wonder where they would be today, if I didn't act on the actual grace that was given me during that lecture.
Isn't it strange how a choice one makes, will effect future generations on down.
Dear Myrna,
That is uplifting and encouraging.
Thank you for telling us about these moving and joyous happenings.
You are one of the people on this Forum whose posts are really helpful to souls.
God Bless you, Myrna.
God Bless your family.
Yours, Sede Catholic.
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I hope I can say that someday all 22 of my grandchildren are baptized, you are blessed in that Myrna.
Absolutely, we will pray for your grandbabies and belief Mabel!
Patti
He he. I accidentally made that sound like I have 22 grandchildren right now. Whoops! Well, I mean that I hope all of my children keep the faith and pass it on to their children :jester:
I am not old enough to have grandchildren yet, even though I might have more than a few gray hairs.
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Perhaps Mabel and Sede will be inspired to tell us a little about their journey to the sede position, which is back to the Roman Catholic Church, the Church that is sadly scattered today.
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Perhaps Mabel and Sede will be inspired to tell us a little about their journey to the sede position, which is back to the Roman Catholic Church, the Church that is sadly scattered today.
So you believe non-sedes are non-Catholic?
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Perhaps Mabel and Sede will be inspired to tell us a little about their journey to the sede position, which is back to the Roman Catholic Church, the Church that is sadly scattered today.
So you believe non-sedes are non-Catholic?
Perhaps you hadn't noticed my phrase bolded above.
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I had known about the sedevacantist position since I was a teenager into my adult life I maintained acquaintances that were sedevacantist, we never talked about much it though, just the beauties of our Faith. As I grew in my faith and graduated high school, I constantly struggled with the novus ordo and the CCC telling me the opposite of what I read in older Catholic books and from many of the TAN books. It was because of the CCC that I held erroneous ideas about salvation, and once I saw that, I really began to question as to why an official catechism of the Church could lead people to error and even heresy. Going to the NO was oppressive, it weighed me down and it did not give me what I needed. I went home one Sunday and looked up a TLM location, went to mass and never looked back.
Karol Wojtyla firmly convinced me of the sedevacantist position in the end. He made a compelling argument for why he was not pope with the Assisi II abomination. I've had peace in my soul since then, though I hope and pray every day for a true pope. One thing for sure, I was glad not to have to justify the Vatican II religion to myself anymore or to reconcile the actions of Wojtyla with the faith of saints and actions of popes--that was tough work.
I've never liked that there is a state of sede vacante, it isn't something I am proud about, it isn't a badge that I like to wear. I just believe it is the only way that I can respond to the situation without denying the Faith, or worse, losing it.
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I appreciate reading good debate... I am not seeking approval nor interested in disapproval.
this is my view on the Vll church.
(as i have stated i was raised pre vll sacraments received including confirmation parents stopped going when i was 10.... i started attending protestant churches at 17 in the 70's it was a different time as holiness and sin were still preached everywhere...
A logical conclusion you've come to based on what you've experienced! Catholics need to be reminded that "being sede by default" comes not from a feeling that we have, or something that we've experienced, it simply comes from past Church teaching, which Catholics must adhere to. Some examples:
"Now when [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church, and the Church must either deprive him, or, as some say, declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See." St. Francis de Sales, "The Catholic Controversy" (16th century)
"...a pope who is a manifest heretic by that fact ceases to be pope and head, just as he by that fact ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; wherefore he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the judgement of all the early fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction."
St. Robert Bellarmine, "On the Roman Pontiff" (16th century)
"If God permitted a pope to be notoriously heretical and contumacious, he would then cease to be pope, and the Apostolic Chair would be vacant." St. Alphonsus de Liguori, "The Truths of the Faith" (18th century)
A more complete list of such quotes from Church teaching can be seen here:
(http://www.faithfulcatholics.com/profiles/blogs/popes-and-heresy)