Author Topic: Baptism of Desire Throughout History (Read 2667 times)

CM · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:21:30 PM »

Caminus · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:38:55 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Answer this question Matthew.

LOL. After you've ignored my inconvenient points? The only answer I can give you is that the "proper sense" includes the possibility of baptism of desire, so in the end, it is only yourself and yourself alone that is perverting the "sense of dogma." This hasn't dawned on you?

Caraffa · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2009, 09:05:15 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Caraffa, I addressed the quotation from Pope St. Leo the Great this morning.

Take a look, page 4 of this thread, posted at 7:59 am.

Ah, but when a Pope issues a dogmatic statement addressing a certain point, outside points mentioned in that same letter or Bull cannot be heretical, only possibly erroneous. Usually these outside points fall into at the very least two theological categories:

Doctrina catholica-Catholic Doctrine-things taught by Popes or a very high majority of Doctors, Saints, theologians, though not always infallibly. If a doctrine is in this category it cannot change.

Theologica certa-Theologically Certain-a Doctrine which has connection to divine revelation or revealed dogma or is contained within the revealed dogma. Theological schools prior to the rise of progessivism/modernism taught it as such.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2009, 09:12:41 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

First of all, St. Thomas did not reject the Immaculate Conception, so you're claiming that he did as a justification for asserting that he taught error elsewhere is extremely unjust on several counts. If you do not fear to audaciously confront the Angelic Doctor with such arrogance and impetuosity, how can we expect you to treat fairly anything else? Secondly, you did not address the point that just because God promised to save men through baptism your conclusion does not at all follow.

Asserting that St. Thomas Aquinus rejected the Immaculate Conception , how on earth do people get into this?

What is the point, anyway?

trad123 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2009, 09:44:14 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Asserting that St. Thomas Aquinus rejected the Immaculate Conception , how on earth do people get into this?

What is the point, anyway?

Tell me Elizabeth, why is it so absurd to believe as we must that infallibility was not given to theologians, but the pope.

Caminus · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:41:47 AM »

Quote from: trad123

Quote from: Elizabeth

Asserting that St. Thomas Aquinus rejected the Immaculate Conception , how on earth do people get into this?

What is the point, anyway?

Tell me Elizabeth, why is it so absurd to believe as we must that infallibility was not given to theologians, but the pope.

Why do you ask misleading questions pregnant with red herrings and non-sequiturs? Once again, I must insist that your entire attitude regarding this question is wrong. If you accept the unanimous assent of the Fathers regarding a particular doctrine, which you must since it compels assent, then you should have no problem at all accepting said doctrine in its substance. You are bound to this fact if you claim to be Catholic. Your work should be focused on attempting to understand the doctrine, not negate it because you'd prefer to pick and choose based upon your own opinions.

CM · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2009, 02:34:56 AM »

Quote from: Caraffa

Quote from: Catholic Martyr
Caraffa, I addressed the quotation from Pope St. Leo the Great this morning.

Take a look, page 4 of this thread, posted at 7:59 am.

Ah, but when a Pope issues a dogmatic statement addressing a certain point, outside points mentioned in that same letter or Bull cannot be heretical, only possibly erroneous. Usually these outside points fall into at the very least two theological categories:

Doctrina catholica-Catholic Doctrine-things taught by Popes or a very high majority of Doctors, Saints, theologians, though not always infallibly. If a doctrine is in this category it cannot change.

Theologica certa-Theologically Certain-a Doctrine which has connection to divine revelation or revealed dogma or is contained within the revealed dogma. Theological schools prior to the rise of progessivism/modernism taught it as such.

Your response seems to have nothing to do with what I said regarding Pope St. Leo's quotation. Say plainly what you mean.