Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Isaac Jogues on August 03, 2013, 08:43:23 PM
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Is it necessary to be baptized again or conditionally baptized after receiving a "baptism of desire"?
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Baptism of desire is only efficacious if you die. In other words it has no result at all unless you die, BOD is not a sacrament. Everyone needs Baptism of water, the sacrament. BOD/BOB are only effective out of necessity, when a person is planning on being baptized or has the desire to be; because of circuмstances beyond their control they were not able to receive the sacrament before their unexpected death.
Not even conditionally baptized, but the administration of baptism is a must.
The ideal is the SACRAMENT of baptism.
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Is it necessary to be baptized again or conditionally baptized after receiving a "baptism of desire"?
Seriously?
We confess one Baptism for the remission of sins. And it's gotta be water.
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Baptism of desire is only efficacious if you die. In other words it has no result at all unless you die, BOD is not a sacrament. Everyone needs Baptism of water, the sacrament. BOD/BOB are only effective out of necessity, when a person is planning on being baptized or has the desire to be; because of circuмstances beyond their control they were not able to receive the sacrament before their unexpected death.
Not even conditionally baptized, but the administration of baptism is a must.
The ideal is the SACRAMENT of baptism.
Can you please direct us to the infallible teaching that BOD only applies if the person dies.
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Baptism of desire is only efficacious if you die. In other words it has no result at all unless you die, BOD is not a sacrament. Everyone needs Baptism of water, the sacrament. BOD/BOB are only effective out of necessity, when a person is planning on being baptized or has the desire to be; because of circuмstances beyond their control they were not able to receive the sacrament before their unexpected death.
Not even conditionally baptized, but the administration of baptism is a must.
The ideal is the SACRAMENT of baptism.
Can you please direct us to the infallible teaching that BOD only applies if the person dies.
All you have to do is google the words "baptism of desire" and you can take your pick as to what you want to read. However, I will look through my home library here to see if I can find a better easy to understand source tomorrow.
In the meantime, think about this: Imagine in the eyes of God, what do you think He thinks about...
A baby being water baptized, which BTW is the Ideal, but just for the sake of reasoning.
1. A baby with NO desire to be baptized, but is water baptised.
2. Another person who has reached the age of reason with the desire to be baptized but just hasn't done it yet.
They both die suddenly. God who is all merciful, and just, what would He do?
Not saying we know everything that God would do, but since we do know He is All mercy and just, what do you think matters to Him.
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Is it necessary to be baptized again or conditionally baptized after receiving a "baptism of desire"?
It is necessary for you to answer the following:
Can you show me any Catholic of repute, saying that BOD/BOB are heretical?
And just so you know i have recently changed my stance on this issue.
Whatever may be decided later by a competent authority on the status of the baptisms doesn't allow you or anyone else in the meantime to say they are heretical, for the Dimonds (the ones where you get your beliefs and the ones who came up with this) are no authority whatsoever.
Sure they may well turn out to be false, but you cross the line in saying they are heretical and are guilty of formal schism.
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Is it necessary to be baptized again or conditionally baptized after receiving a "baptism of desire"?
It is necessary for you to answer the following:
Can you show me any Catholic of repute, saying that BOD/BOB are heretical?
And just so you know i have recently changed my stance on this issue.
Whatever may be decided later by a competent authority on the status of the baptisms doesn't allow you or anyone else in the meantime to say they are heretical, for the Dimonds (the ones where you get your beliefs and the ones who came up with this) are no authority whatsoever.
Sure they may well turn out to be false, but you cross the line in saying they are heretical and are guilty of formal schism.
First, The myriad of solemn declarations Which state that there is no salvation outside the church, That Sacramental baptism is necessary to become a member Of the church or to have Original Sin removed, Or that sacramental baptism is necessary to be justified. Any teaching contrary to these dogmas is heresy. Just as speaking contrary to the formula for the Blessed Trinity is heresy etc. The church does not need to specifically condemn baptism of desire because it is implicitly done so through the dogmatic definitions of the church. Therefore anyone who obstinately denies that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation is condemned.
Second, Although I am glad that you have changed your position to a certain degree, I would not be surprised if you changed it again.
Third, Contrary to what you say the dimond brothers did not give me my beliefs. Even when I was in the Vatican II church I always believed that there was no salvation outside the church and that baptism was absolutely necessary. I also did not believe that NFP was licit or moral for a Catholic to do. Their teaching on this was what led me to their site and caused my conversion to the traditional Catholic Church. I had always known that there was something wrong with that "church" and that the traditional teachings did not add up with what the "church" was teaching
now. So I don't care what you say about the diamond brothers because you can only attack them Personally and not refute what they say.
Last, I would never listen to anything you say because the last time I talk to you you told me that you did not even believe that John 3:5 is literal even though the church clearly teaches that it is.Clearly you don't even know what Catholic teaching is so how are you qualified to say that the dimond brothers don't know either.
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First, The myriad of solemn declarations Which state that there is no salvation outside the church, That Sacramental baptism is necessary to become a member Of the church or to have Original Sin removed, Or that sacramental baptism is necessary to be justified. Any teaching contrary to these dogmas is heresy. Just as speaking contrary to the formula for the Blessed Trinity is heresy etc. The church does not need to specifically condemn baptism of desire because it is implicitly done so through the dogmatic definitions of the church. Therefore anyone who obstinately denies that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation is condemned.
This is very nice, but you didn't answer the question.
And if you are to be consistent and logical with this, then you have to anathematize all the Saints that ever taught BOD/BOB, for how can they possibly plead "ignorance" or "good will" on this issue, them being bright theologians who knew Catholic teaching inside-out?
If all you can say is, which is actually what the Dimonds say, "oh they were just erring in good faith. No biggie."
Well then, how do you know this? How do you know they "didn't know" they were contradicting clear infallible dogmatic teaching? You think they didn't read what they taught against, or carefully considered the matter?
Third, Contrary to what you say the dimond brothers did not give me my beliefs.
You bet they did.
I told you it is a fact that they are the only ones that went so far as to say that BOD/BOB are heretical.
Which is why i asked you to show me anyone of repute who said this. But of course you can't because they are the only ones who say this. Can it be any more clear?
Saying they may be false and erroneous is one thing, but saying they are heretical quite another and demonstrates rashness because logically you would have to say all the ones who taught them were heretics, but like a hypocrite they (you) don't.
They (you) want to have their (your) cake and eat it to.
So I don't care what you say about the diamond brothers because you can only attack them Personally and not refute what they say.
Yeah you don't care they are schismatics and phonies who are not even real monks who sneak in in cognito dressed as civilians to a Vatican II "mass" una cuм Bergoglio the talking apostate, the very man they condemn as antipope (CAN YOU SAY HYPOCRITES OF THE YEAR?) because you just like what they say, regardless if whether it's true or not.
And just what is it that "i can't refute" of what they say? I already told you i agree you need to be sacramentally baptized, which they claim too, so what are you talking about?
Nothing.
Last, I would never listen to anything you say because the last time I talk to you you told me that you did not even believe that John 3:5 is literal even though the church clearly teaches that it is. Clearly you don't even know what Catholic teaching is so how are you qualified to say that the dimond brothers don't know either.
Gee whiz you really need to take them off the pedestal you have them in.
Will they vouch for you when you appear in front of the Judgment Seat of Christ?
These people are filled with hate and just the way they speak is not Catholic. Just listen to any of their debates. Oh wait you already have. So that means you fully endorse their non-Catholic atittude.
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This is amazing. You claim that the dimonds are hateful but your language is extremely hateful sounding. You can say whatever you want.
It's illogical to say the saints are automatically heretics just because they make errors, the fact is that they were not obstinate in them like the supporters of bod now days., or else they wouldn't be saints.
Where is the declaration stating that st Thomas is a heretic for denying the immaculate conception? You are too blind to see that you are wrong.
All You can do is sit there and lie. I told you that they didn't give me my beliefs, they only showed me where to go to back them up. Your hatred of the BROTHERS is so obvious it's funny almost.
If you want to discuss the point of this thread that's fine, otherwise I am going to ignore you because all you do is spout your hatred for Catholics.
This is going to be fun watching you talk to the wall!
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2. Another person who has reached the age of reason with the desire to be baptized but just hasn't done it yet.
They both die suddenly. God who is all merciful, and just, what would He do?
Alternative answers (other than your BOD):
God would not take the person's life before God sent anyone to baptize the person. God would have had the person baptized unknowingly as a infant by his nurse. God would have had any passerby baptize the person who died suddenly on his way to his catechism class. God controls time, and God had all of time and people to get the person baptized in water without having to go through catechism and an entire baptism ceremony.
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2. Another person who has reached the age of reason with the desire to be baptized but just hasn't done it yet.
They both die suddenly. God who is all merciful, and just, what would He do?
Alternative answers (other than your BOD):
God would not take the person's life before God sent anyone to baptize the person. God would have had the person baptized unknowingly as a infant by his nurse. God would have had any passerby baptize the person who died suddenly on his way to his catechism class. God controls time, and God had all of time and people to get the person baptized in water without having to go through catechism and an entire baptism ceremony.
Yes, yes and He also allows BOD as the church teaches, look it up in any Catholic book that speaks of baptism.
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2. Another person who has reached the age of reason with the desire to be baptized but just hasn't done it yet.
They both die suddenly. God who is all merciful, and just, what would He do?
Alternative answers (other than your BOD):
God would not take the person's life before God sent anyone to baptize the person. God would have had the person baptized unknowingly as a infant by his nurse. God would have had any passerby baptize the person who died suddenly on his way to his catechism class. God controls time, and God had all of time and people to get the person baptized in water without having to go through catechism and an entire baptism ceremony.
Yes, yes and He also allows BOD as the church teaches, look it up in any Catholic book that speaks of baptism.
Here (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/romancat.html) is the original catechism which came directly out of Trent which speaks of baptism quite explicitly and in great detail - please look it up yourself and post what this catechism teaches about a BOD.
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If someone is alive, and they want to be baptized, and they have the opportunity, why wouldn't they be? I'm not catching on here.
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MyrnaM said:
All you have to do is google the words "baptism of desire" and you can take your pick as to what you want to read. However, I will look through my home library here to see if I can find a better easy to understand source tomorrow.
Are you implying my inferior intellect might not be able to understand the amazingly "orthodox" and "complex" teachings of BOD through online Google searches. LOL
MyrnaM said:
Not saying we know everything that God would do, but since we do know He is All mercy and just, what do you think matters to Him.
God has revealed through His Church what matters, that people are Baptized in order to remove their original sin and become members of His Church. The person that does not have the use of reason has not the requirements of someone who has the use of reason.
My point was that people that believe in BOD hold to all kinds of different variations. If you claim that it only applies to when someone dies, where is that taught infallibly.
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MyrnaM said:
All you have to do is google the words "baptism of desire" and you can take your pick as to what you want to read. However, I will look through my home library here to see if I can find a better easy to understand source tomorrow.
Are you implying my inferior intellect might not be able to understand the amazingly "orthodox" and "complex" teachings of BOD through online Google searches. LOL
MyrnaM said:
Not saying we know everything that God would do, but since we do know He is All mercy and just, what do you think matters to Him.
God has revealed through His Church what matters, that people are Baptized in order to remove their original sin and become members of His Church. The person that does not have the use of reason has not the requirements of someone who has the use of reason.
My point was that people that believe in BOD hold to all kinds of different variations. If you claim that it only applies to when someone dies, where is that taught infallibly.
I am not implying anything about your intellect, sorry if it sounded such. I have my own problems. What I am saying is, and to answer Tiffany as well, baptism of desire is for people who are planning to be baptized but for some reason they, in the past were martyred or an unforeseen accident happens before the baptism actually happens. God's grace is a gift, and He gives it to whoever He wishes at times. He knows His own.
The more I think about this subject, it seems that people who insist there is no such a thing as BOD, deny the mercy of God. They explain it away, by saying God knows you are going to die and He will provide what is necessary, and He does, I agree, it's called BOD. Everyone who dies in the State of Grace is united to the Church.
The reason BOD when applied after death, is because God knows His own.
Another person who claims to say he desires baptism but does nothing about it, just keeps putting if off, and passes up opportunity after opportunity to be baptized with water and does absolutely nothing about it, but talk about it, really does not have a desire at all. Just lip service. God can not be mocked. He knows.
That is why it is not up to us to say, who is and who is not a member of the Church, that is up to God, and Him alone.
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This is amazing. You claim that the dimonds are hateful but your language is extremely hateful sounding. You can say whatever you want.
Not even close to them actually.
It's illogical to say the saints are automatically heretics just because they make errors, the fact is that they were not obstinate in them like the supporters of bod now days., or else they wouldn't be saints.
Thank you for admitting you just have no response.
Where is the declaration stating that st Thomas is a heretic for denying the immaculate conception?
This seems like desperation. Even your buddies the Dimonds answer this.
It wasn't defined dogma by then of course.
Didn't you know?
You are too blind to see that you are wrong.
Wrong about what?
All You can do is sit there and lie.
Please show me where I lied, otherwise you are the one guilty of breaking the 8th commandment.
I told you that they didn't give me my beliefs, they only showed me where to go to back them up.
I don't know how else to explain this to you.
They are the ONLY ONES who say that BOD/BOB are heretical.
You believe they are heretical.
Ergo, you got your belief from them.
Your hatred of the BROTHERS is so obvious it's funny almost.
This is a blatant lie because they are not real monks nor "brothers". Only biological brothers lol. They break the Holy Rule of St. Benedict on several places and they don't even speak or behave like real monks at all. It's possible they don't even pray the monastic breviary.
They are Sarabaites, according to the Holy Rule of St. Benedict. Go look up what those are.
But you don't care about this and mindlessly keep on asserting they're monks when they're not. That's lying, you know, a sin.
And no i don't hate them. I wish they would convert and stop being hypocrites because they give a bad name to sedevacantism.
If you want to discuss the point of this thread that's fine, otherwise I am going to ignore you because all you do is spout your hatred for Catholics. This is going to be fun watching you talk to the wall!
Yeah since you don't care for the truth and you have nothing else to say you can only cowardly threaten to ignore me, like the coward that you are, instead of dealing with the facts. What a pathetic wimp.
And stop referring to the Dimonds as Catholics because THEY ARE NOT. They are schismatics and heretics. By calling them Catholics you lie and sin.
It seems the only one who "sits there and lies" is you buddy.
I answer you point-by-point and in detail, and you don't, and you still call me a liar.
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:incense: How and when did you "receive the baptism of desire"??? This is imputed by God AT DEATH in exceptional cases. For example, you are a catechumen with plans to be baptized on a certain date and you die suddenly, before then. Or, you are truly invincibly ignorant of the Catholic religion. Or you desire with all your heart, to be baptized, but you are in solitary confinement in a North Korean prison and there is nobody to baptize you.
A rule is never made of an exception. If you have not been properly baptized, it is a state of mortal sin to know the necessity and yet rely on God accepting you as having had the proper desire. Get to a priest at once! Why play with your salvation?
:pray:
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Thank you Frances
Also from my home library:
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/TitlePage.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/TitlePage.jpg)[/URL][/img]
The above book is dated 1939
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/Page33.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/Page33.jpg)[/URL][/img]
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/Page34.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/Page34.jpg)[/URL][/img]
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if circuмstances prevent the sacrament due to no fault of the unbaptized person, and death comes unexpected there's great hope the person received justification because of his/her desire and plan to receive the sacrament. [/u]
So, God predestines some people to receive the grace of justification before baptism, but to die before they can receive actual baptism?
St. Augustine: “If you wish to be a Catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.’ There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him, when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief.” (On the Soul and Its Origin 3, 13)
Myrna responded: God allows a person justification if they are going to receive the Sacrament but die before that happens, it is simple as that.
Bowler answers: St. Augustine is telling us that no one dies unless God takes them. That God before the beginning of time predestined everything that would happen to that person. For your system to work, you have to eliminate God from part two, the "unexpected death". First, God predestined the person to be justified before he was baptized, but then, either God predestines people to die before receiving the sacrament and go to heaven, or else God predestined the person to die before he received baptism so that the person would not suffer greater torments in hell (the baptized who end up in hell suffer the greatest torments).
For BOD to work, God must have predestined people to be justified and die without being baptized and still go to heaven, God would have had to do it "on purpose", and not that a person died "by accident".
I don't know of any theologian who taught that God predestines some people to die without baptism and still go to heaven. That is what St. Augustine is saying.
Do you understand what St. Augustine is saying?
“If you wish to be a Catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination"
bowler, define predestination as you understand it.
I added my question to you, that you omitted when you asked me to define predestination. Please answer my question. I doubt that you do not know what predestination is, so please answer my question.
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Thank you Frances
Also from my home library:
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/TitlePage.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/TitlePage.jpg)[/URL][/img]
The above book is dated 1939
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/Page33.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/Page33.jpg)[/URL][/img]
(http://[URL=http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Myrnanne/media/Page34.jpg.html][IMG]http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/Myrnanne/Page34.jpg)[/URL][/img]
Fr. Connell has my trust, I'd rather stand with him than someone without the authorization of the Church to explain Catholic doctrine.
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Mabel, not only this one particular book, but like I said these people that are taken in with the Dimond Brothers false teachings better pray for the truth, before they find themselves outside the ark, because of the sin of omittance.
I advise those to do the research, not only on the Internet, but collect old Catholic books in thrift stores, libraries, garage sales, anywhere they can, and look up baptism. Every one of them teaches there is BOD/BOB, from Radio replies (First Volumn; page 167) to an approved Catholic dictionary.
The Dimond brothers, like Vatican II, began a new religion. They are filled with Pride, who dare say the Catholic church, Doctors of the Church, Councils were all mistaken, but they have it right now. Who ever entertains their false teachings are playing with fire.
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MyrnaM said:
Mabel, not only this one particular book, but like I said these people that are taken in with the Dimond Brothers false teachings better pray for the truth, before they find themselves outside the ark, because of the sin of omittance.
You are just like others who condemn the Dimond Brothers, always telling people they are horrible or starting a new religion but never providing any proof to refute them with. Please stick to the argument at hand and deal with the teachings.
MyrnaM said:
I advise those to do the research, not only on the Internet, but collect old Catholic books in thrift stores, libraries, garage sales, anywhere they can, and look up baptism. Every one of them teaches there is BOD/BOB, from Radio replies (First Volumn; page 167) to an approved Catholic dictionary.
If you could give a definition for Baptism of Desire, I can show you where the Catholic Church teaches the contrary. Is that Pride or is it confidence in God and His Church.
Who's authority do you reject the Vatican II church? Is it Churchmen who you refer to or is it the infallible teachings of the Catholic Church to prove the V II "church" is false? Just like the Churchmen throughout the history of Baptism of Desire are the only ones that advance it. The Church condemns it by it's teaching on Baptism.
Pope Benedict XIV, Apostolica (# 6), June 26, 1749: “The Church’s judgment is preferable to that of a Doctor renowned for his holiness and teaching.”
I want you to show everyone where the Infallible Magisterium teaches BOD only applies to those that die (let alone that the Magisterium teaches it at all).
After all, we are supposed to always refer to the Magisterium when there is a conflict between theologians and when the teachings of theologians are at odds with Church teachings.
MyrnaM said:
The Dimond brothers, like Vatican II, began a new religion. They are filled with Pride, who dare say the Catholic church, Doctors of the Church, Councils were all mistaken, but they have it right now. Who ever entertains their false teachings are playing with fire.
Why do you accept some theologians and not others.
St. Gregory nαzιanz, 381 AD: “Of those who fail to be baptized some are utterly animal and bestial, according to whether they are foolish or wicked. This, I think, they must add to their other sins, that they have no reverence for this gift, but regard it as any other gift, to be accepted if given them, or neglected if not given them. Others know and honor the gift; but they delay, some out of carelessness, some because of insatiable desire. Still others are not able to receive it, perhaps because of infancy, or some perfectly involuntary circuмstance which prevents them from receiving the gift, even if they desire it…
“If you were able to judge a man who intends to commit murder, solely by his intention and without any act of murder, then you could likewise reckon as baptized one who desired Baptism, without having received Baptism. But, since you cannot do the former, how can you do the latter? I cannot see it. If you prefer, we will put it like this: if in your opinion desire has equal power with actual Baptism, then make the same judgment in regard to glory. You will then be satisfied to long for glory, as if that longing itself were glory. Do you suffer any damage by not attaining the actual glory, as long as you have a desire for it?”
St. Gregory totally rejected BOD. What do you say to that? Is he in League with the "evil Dimond Brothers"?
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MyrnaM said:
Mabel, not only this one particular book, but like I said these people that are taken in with the Dimond Brothers false teachings better pray for the truth, before they find themselves outside the ark, because of the sin of omittance.
You are just like others who condemn the Dimond Brothers, always telling people they are horrible or starting a new religion but never providing any proof to refute them with. Please stick to the argument at hand and deal with the teachings.
MyrnaM said:
I advise those to do the research, not only on the Internet, but collect old Catholic books in thrift stores, libraries, garage sales, anywhere they can, and look up baptism. Every one of them teaches there is BOD/BOB, from Radio replies (First Volumn; page 167) to an approved Catholic dictionary.
If you could give a definition for Baptism of Desire, I can show you where the Catholic Church teaches the contrary. Is that Pride or is it confidence in God and His Church.
Who's authority do you reject the Vatican II church? Is it Churchmen who you refer to or is it the infallible teachings of the Catholic Church to prove the V II "church" is false? Just like the Churchmen throughout the history of Baptism of Desire are the only ones that advance it. The Church condemns it by it's teaching on Baptism.
Pope Benedict XIV, Apostolica (# 6), June 26, 1749: “The Church’s judgment is preferable to that of a Doctor renowned for his holiness and teaching.”
I want you to show everyone where the Infallible Magisterium teaches BOD only applies to those that die (let alone that the Magisterium teaches it at all).
After all, we are supposed to always refer to the Magisterium when there is a conflict between theologians and when the teachings of theologians are at odds with Church teachings.
MyrnaM said:
The Dimond brothers, like Vatican II, began a new religion. They are filled with Pride, who dare say the Catholic church, Doctors of the Church, Councils were all mistaken, but they have it right now. Who ever entertains their false teachings are playing with fire.
Why do you accept some theologians and not others.
St. Gregory nαzιanz, 381 AD: “Of those who fail to be baptized some are utterly animal and bestial, according to whether they are foolish or wicked. This, I think, they must add to their other sins, that they have no reverence for this gift, but regard it as any other gift, to be accepted if given them, or neglected if not given them. Others know and honor the gift; but they delay, some out of carelessness, some because of insatiable desire. Still others are not able to receive it, perhaps because of infancy, or some perfectly involuntary circuмstance which prevents them from receiving the gift, even if they desire it…
“If you were able to judge a man who intends to commit murder, solely by his intention and without any act of murder, then you could likewise reckon as baptized one who desired Baptism, without having received Baptism. But, since you cannot do the former, how can you do the latter? I cannot see it. If you prefer, we will put it like this: if in your opinion desire has equal power with actual Baptism, then make the same judgment in regard to glory. You will then be satisfied to long for glory, as if that longing itself were glory. Do you suffer any damage by not attaining the actual glory, as long as you have a desire for it?”
St. Gregory totally rejected BOD. What do you say to that? Is he in League with the "evil Dimond Brothers"?
If you see no wrong with the VII church consider my comparison of the Dimond Bros. with them a complement.
I already posted a definition of BOB/BOD for you and your mistaken ilk.
St. Gregory would not be a Saint if he rejected Church teaching by the time he passed away.
Oh, now you say, we say, BOD has equal power to the sacrament of Baptism, and you pretend to know all about the glory of heaven as if you died and came back to instruct us.
BTW Catholics do not judge anyone!