Author Topic: Baby Boomers and their memories of the Latin Mass (Read 1697 times)

Matthew · « **on:** February 01, 2016, 04:08:12 PM »

Someone posted a good point on Facebook:

Quote

Someone in the wonderful world of social media left this comment in response to my most recent Liturgy Guy post on the use of Latin within the Mass:

Quote
“I remember Latin Masses. No one understood what was being said. If you tried to follow where the priest was you couldn’t because you couldn’t see what he was doing. So, you took out your rosary and prayed. The common expression was that the Mass was in Latin so that NO ONE in the world could understand it.”

I’m sincerely beginning to believe that some baby boomer Catholics are making a concerted effort to undermine the resurgence of the Latin Mass with such “memories” as this one. The comment above is unfortunately a rather common occurrence on social media these days; a recollection that is invariably shared each and every time an attempted discussion of the traditional liturgy begins.

Here’s why I believe it’s total baloney:

1. I have exclusively assisted at the Traditional Latin Mass (sometimes called the Extraordinary Form) for nearly three years now. It is easy to understand what is going on. Over time those who regularly attend the Mass learn the responses in Latin as well as the Ordinary of the Mass (the Gloria, Creed, Agnus Dei, etc.). After all, let’s use some common sense here: how darn confused can one be about something that they participate in EVERY week? At what point do you accept personal responsibility for simply having never paid attention at Mass in your younger days; or…

2. …when do you acknowledge that you, your parents, or your parochial instructors, failed in their obligation to catechize you? Many of us today still utilize the Baltimore Catechism and traditional children’s Latin Mass missals to educate our kids in the faith. Both are pre-conciliar works. Someone was buying them back then to teach an entire generation about the faith. Apparently the boomers in social media who so greatly detest the Latin Mass somehow missed this formation.

3. It’s interesting that such amazing nineteenth and twentieth century saints like St. Bernadette, St. Therese, Bl. Pier Giorgio Frassati, St. Maximillian Kolbe, St. Padre Pio, and St. Edith Stein managed to attain personal holiness and demonstrate heroic virtue despite having only that confusing Latin Mass.

4. It’s also interesting to further note that rectories, seminaries, and religious orders boomed in the twentieth century, hitting their highest levels in the 1950’s and early 1960’s despite the fact that (as some try to claim today) no one understood the Mass and were left in the dark, lacking spiritual fulfilment from the very source and summit of the faith.

Frankly, none of this narrative jives. This isn’t to say that uninspired Low Masses were never offered (because minimalism will always exist), or that some children were not subjected to deficient religious formation, because that will always be a struggle since fallible humans are responsible for passing along the faith. But the contention that Latin Rite Catholics were confused and stymied by the Mass of the Ages, the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven”, is nothing more than anti-Catholic hogwash.

TKGS · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2016, 04:22:12 PM »

I don't think he's deliberately trying to undermine anything. I believe he sincerely believes what he wrote is the truth. I also believe that everything he wrote in that snippet is a lie and that he didn't believe it in 1960.

What he wrote is merely a parroting of what has been said over the past few decades over and over again by the Modernists and this absurdity is now firmly embedded in his memory and he has taken it as his own.

The first time I ever saw this in real life was in a political context. Several people at work watched Pat Buchanan's speech at the Republican National Convention. We all agreed the following morning that it was a very good speech. Over the next week, the media began telling everyone that it was nothing but a nαzι hate speech calling for an armed war against America. I was shocked when one of the people in our group started condemning Buchanan. I stopped him and told him that last week he was praising him. The man was flummoxed. He was actually shocked that I would suggest such a thing. He truly believed that he was disgusted with Buchanan immediately. If such a thing could happen in just a week, think about how easy it would be after several decades.

songbird · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2016, 06:20:53 PM »

I was born in 1952. Our parish was large; over 200 families with about 250 children at school age from grade 1 -12. We had a priest and assistant priest and convent of nuns for teaching. We had a few lay teachers.

We had only a microphone at the pulpit, not at the altar. No cry rooms, bathroom was down stairs in a dark area. We only went there if we really had to.

My class was over 40 students.

I think we were taught the basics. If I had any zeal for my Faith, it came from my mother, who does not have it today, age 84.

My zeal came from the mystery of saints, like St. Bernadette. The movie was the greatest hit, even to TCM Turner Classic.

We were able to pray along the responses in latin and that would have been 1960.
We had the Holy Eucharist prayer books to follow the Mass.

I did not understand the in depth powers of the Most Precious Blood. My thoughts were to be good. I came from a family of 9, being the 2nd oldest. (girl).

I picture my up bringing, as lacking in family prayer. We never had a family rosary and the aunts that I knew did not either, when I stayed over. I went to a few other family friends home and they too, had no family rosary or prayer time.

If I saw my mom say a rosary, it was in the church(not on Sundays) and across her bed in tears or what I would say, out of need. My dad, at church and not often. He was a convert.

There were converts after the war and married. I can't say I saw a strong family with family prayer, which I can not say enough about, because I see it as very important.

I did not understand the powers of the Precious Blood, til I ran across a book by the Redemptorist Priest. Stating in a book, Holy Eucharist that the Sacrifice will come to an end. I realized I needed to read my bible. But I found my Great-Great Uncle Fr. Stoltz was a priest of the Precious Blood in Carthegenia, OH. He was ordained in June 1907. He had the desire since Holy Eucharist, age 14 (?). St. Charles Seminary there in Carthegenia, OH had as many as 100-150 students a year!

I read as many books as I could of Fr. Faber and those of the Precious Blood. Their mission was to excite the people and educate them to the Powers of the Blood. Founder St. Gaspar (Kaspar) of Italy. Beatified and canonized by St Pius X and the following pope. It was so exciting for me to learn what Fr. Stoltz had.

I had to excite myself. But it comes from wanting to know and time to read. Even then I think we have more to understand our heritage and that is from the saints of long ago.

I have a friend, 20 years younger than me from Babylon and when they fasted and abstained they did it! No eggs, not even fish. They took water, no milk and etc.

I think my mother, the catholic, did not know much of her Faith. I asked her a question one day and she said, "Oh, if you ask then your faith is little". I said, if you can answer me, it will be bigger. And my mom was dumbfounded. No answer. I can't remember what I asked. Ha!

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2016, 08:52:25 PM »

I am a baby boomer born in 1946. I remember well the Latin Mass and
even served as an altar boy. I remember the Parochial School attended,
a brand new school built in 1955. I remember the first day and the
school was so new that we had to wait for desks to be brought in .
Remember the Nuns and they taught me well about my Faith.
The school had one or two lay teachers that were paid lower than
the teachers of the Public Schools. The tuition was only $5.00 a
month because every Sunday Mass was filled and it was a wealthy
Parish. My class was over 100 students and there were large
families. Some as high as 10 children and having more.
The changes started when I was in High School and experience my
first all English Masses except for the canon of the Mass.
After I graduated in 1966. I moved to Washington, DC and attended
St. Dominic's in Southwest D.C. I served Mass there in the
Dominican Rite and the Priest faced the people and the only Latin
prayers said were the Offertory Prayers. The words said by the
acolyte was: Bene Dici Te. The all English canon came in 1967.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2016, 09:25:22 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

I don't think he's deliberately trying to undermine anything. I believe he sincerely believes what he wrote is the truth. I also believe that everything he wrote in that snippet is a lie and that he didn't believe it in 1960.

What he wrote is merely a parroting of what has been said over the past few decades over and over again by the Modernists and this absurdity is now firmly embedded in his memory and he has taken it as his own.

The first time I ever saw this in real life was in a political context. Several people at work watched Pat Buchanan's speech at the Republican National Convention. We all agreed the following morning that it was a very good speech. Over the next week, the media began telling everyone that it was nothing but a nαzι hate speech calling for an armed war against America. I was shocked when one of the people in our group started condemning Buchanan. I stopped him and told him that last week he was praising him. The man was flummoxed. He was actually shocked that I would suggest such a thing. He truly believed that he was disgusted with Buchanan immediately. If such a thing could happen in just a week, think about how easy it would be after several decades.

This is a great post and really helps to explain what's going on in the OP.

Thanks, TKGS, for clearing up the fog.

.

Nadir · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2016, 09:37:27 PM »

I too was born in 1946. I never heard anyone ever complain about Latin. It was taken completely for granted. We were told you could go anywhere in the world and you would have the same Mass. It was not the Latin Mass, it was the Holy Mass. Nobody even gave our native language a thought.

Children (my brothers and I) understood everything that was going on and none of us was at all confused by the Latin. We knew it off by heart as well and could answer any part of the Mass. We also understood what the Latin words meant.

You sometimes saw people saying their Rosary, but it was not a common sight. Oh yes! we had Mass books as well and followed them.

We had huge numbers of Catholic children in each class. First Holy Communion group photos show my tiny face lost in a sea of other faces. Most practiced the faith, not like now when parents bring their children for a first and last Holy Communion. We learnt the faith from our parents and that faith was reinforced by teachers who were invariably nuns in full regalia. Lay teachers were not needed because the convents were full.

TKGS nailed it.

songbird · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2016, 08:55:29 PM »

I do remember those older than myself, born in 1930's were taught some Latin on the East coast. I,being born in 1952, in Indiana, we were not taught Latin. We did get it with singing songs in the choir for Corpus Christi and other occasions. We learnt the responses at the Mass. Our parents tried to get the front pews for the children, so that they could see. Also, we sat in a pew in front of our parents so if we misbehaved we got a flick of a finger to our head. The girls wore hats of many kinds. We had nice hat shops in our town. Then veils became more common by the mid 60's and veils came on and then no veils by 1971.

The first change that bothered me was the "Our Father" was changed with the what I call the protestant version, "for thine... It was that, that let me know we were changing to protestants.

Maria Regina · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2016, 01:56:10 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

I too was born in 1946. I never heard anyone ever complain about Latin. It was taken completely for granted. We were told you could go anywhere in the world and you would have the same Mass. It was not the Latin Mass, it was the Holy Mass. Nobody even gave our native language a thought.

Children (my brothers and I) understood everything that was going on and none of us was at all confused by the Latin. We knew it off by heart as well and could answer any part of the Mass. We also understood what the Latin words meant.

You sometimes saw people saying their Rosary, but it was not a common sight. Oh yes! we had Mass books as well and followed them.

We had huge numbers of Catholic children in each class. First Holy Communion group photos show my tiny face lost in a sea of other faces. Most practiced the faith, not like now when parents bring their children for a first and last Holy Communion. We learnt the faith from our parents and that faith was reinforced by teachers who were invariably nuns in full regalia. Lay teachers were not needed because the convents were full.

TKGS nailed it.

When I was a child, going to Latin Mass was a day that we cherished. We tried to focus on Christ and His saints, and that was made easy with all the statues in the Church, the beautiful vestments, the high altar with the candles and the golden tabernacle, the glorious Latin hymns and chants, the incense used during the Mass, the Holy Water during the Aperges Me at the beginning of Mass, and the traditional Missal. My mom brought along Catholic story books for my younger brothers and sister to keep them quiet. Yes, occasionally my brother would pinch me, and my father would bop both of us on the head and then finally separate us. He did not want him pinching me, or me complaining about it as we were to suffer in silence. He would try other means to make my Sundays as miserable as possible, and I would pray all the harder that he would change into a lovely man someday. I guess that was the beginning of my desires to enter religious life ... to pray for our family that we would be saved.

All the girls and ladies wore pretty hats, gloves, and their best clothes. It was a time when most Catholics had huge families. We did not have thrift stores as parents would collect what was "gently used" and bring that to the church on Sunday to share with those who were struggling, and during that time, most of us were struggling to make end meet or struggling to save for a new house, a new car, a new TV, or for college tuition. I obtained some lovely clothes though this clothing exchange, and by adding a scarf or a different belt, the outfits looked new. Sometimes my mom would have me rip seams and make an entirely new and more stylish outfit.

I spent my teenage years in the very progressive San Francisco Bay Area. That was the era of Flower Children. In 1963 or 1964, we had an English form of the Mass for the first time, and the nuns mentioned that this was due to the changes of Vatican II. I remember the priests were reading the Epistle and Gospel for the first time in English, but we were still singing the Gloria, Sanctus, etc., in Latin except at the Low Masses when everything was recited in English..

In Summer of 1971, I moved down to Los Angeles, but they still had the Latin Mass, as the Novus Ordo Mass was not promoted until 1973. That was a while ago, so I may be confused by the dates, but the LA Archdiocese seemed to be more traditionalist and delayed the implementation of the Novus Ordo. I remember the "crash courses" offered in the LA parishes to bring the people up to date on the Novus Ordo, and how many of the people were upset.

And yes, the Modernists told us that saying the Rosary was very inappropriate as we were now to participate in the Novus Ordo by singing and being attentive. Yet, how could we be attentive with the new "rock" masses, so the churches were no longer silent. With the silence gone, the mystery seemed to vanish.

BJ5 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2016, 11:55:01 AM »

I was born in 1954 and did not take Latin until I was in High School. That did not prevent me from leaning the Latin responses to the Mass as an altar server. When I finally did take Latin in High School, my liturgical Latin experience helped tremendously.

We all had missals as children. Everyone got one for First Communion. To this day, I can pray many, if not most of the prayers in the Offertory and Canon in English without a missal because of years of daily Mass as a child.

So the idea that the TLM was difficult, boring, or not able to be followed is baloney. I did it starting at age 5.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2016, 01:38:29 PM »

Just to get an idea of what's going on at a local parish, I went into the church on a weekday morning when the school children were at Mass. It's a Novus Ordo parish, but in the early 1960's, when the church was built, it had been traditional Catholic.

The liturgy isn't the only thing that's different now. When Mass was over, a din of chatter and movement began. The children began to stand up and move around in the pews, talking to each other and some even began to play games of various kinds. It looked more like recess than church. Overly active children spilled into the aisles and walked up and down, without any monitor or teacher telling them to stop it. Eventually the exit process began and throngs of disorganized groups started walking out the doors, most of the children busy talking to each other, as they would leaving a movie theater or a baseball game.

That's not the way it was when I was in parochial school. There was a vast difference between the behavior of children at parish schools compared to other, public schools in town. Parochial school children in 1963 didn't dare stand up and walk around or talk to each other in church. They all stood up TOGETHER, when the principal clapped her hands. They all genuflected TOGETHER when she clapped again (now they don't genuflect at all). One class at a time filed out of the pews, and walked down the aisles in STRAIGHT ROWS, with a minimal amount of head wagging from right to left. We had to be trained not to do that, and there were special days when we would walk to the church for a half hour just for the purpose of practicing how to move in church. We walked down the sidewalks in double rows, and we did not talk or goof off on the way. We spent all our time thinking about how NOT to misbehave.

So it's a whole nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr today. The well-mannered children of the pre-Vatican II days are a thing of the past, a page of history. It's OVER.

It's up to independent priests in tiny strongholds to maintain the traditions of the past.

.

songbird · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2016, 04:52:45 PM »

Neil thank you for the post. We too, had Mass every morning at 7:30 am. If we met in the classroom, we walk 2 a-breast no talking in order. The nun would have a rubber band around her missal and snap it for us all to genuflect together. Those who came off the bus, came to their class section before Mass was to begin. We left in the same order. We had about 40 in our class.