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We are to avoid the Novus Ordo Mass specifically, and stay aloof from the Conciliar Church, due to the danger of Modernist contagion and risk to our Catholic Faith.

However, that does not extend to refusing to speak to individual Catholics, excommunicating all Novus Ordo attendees as "non-Catholic", or rejecting all organizations whose employees attend the Novus Ordo.

How do I say it nicely? There are plenty of things that Trads can't or won't do. So God bless those "novus order" Catholics and organizations!

There are many GOOD, PRAISEWORTHY apostolates which Trads are unable/unwilling to do. I'm tempted to throw in a bunch of digs against Trads here. Ok, I'll be brief: they can be very discouraged, having a siege mentality, apocalyptic, negative, as well as apathetic/lazy and lacking ambition. I've been a Trad all my life, so I know Trads all too well, so I am well qualified to criticize them.

Sure, there are some organizations or businesses which are intimately tied up with the new Conciliar Religion. Modern Catholic book publishers, for example. 1. We have several Trad Catholic book publishers, so why not favor them? and 2. books are something that can be tainted by the new religion.

But Trads should NOT dismiss countless good apostolates which have no Trad equivalent, and/or which aren't completely nullified by contact with the Novus Ordo.

Don't pretend such organizations don't exist. There are plenty!

Pro-life movement, news and Catholic action organizations like LifeSiteNews
Church supply companies like Leaflet Missal and Autom -- they have modern crap for sale, but also many completely traditional products.
All the many individual companies who make cassocks, surplices, and religious goods to sell in catalogs like Autom and Leaflet Missal.
Organizations pushing important apparitions like Fatima
Organizations like Abby Johnson's which focus on finding alternate employment for Abortion industry workers (I bet no Trads are working on this one!)
Specific apostolates like orphanages, charities, helping the poor, soup kitchens, shelters, helping women in crisis pregnancies, helping women who regret abortions, "Project Rachael" -- the list is very long.

There aren't enough go-getter Trads WILLING and ABLE to create their own large apostolates to do these things. How can we write off as "novus ordo" these good apostolates, organizations, and businesses when we Trads have nothing to replace them with -- and they are doing good work which NEEDS to be done.

Long story short, there are Catholics in the Novus Ordo. Sure, many of them are defective materially in their knowledge, and maybe they even have bad habits thanks to their priests. But they have the Faith. They are there to serve God and do His will. They only *tolerate* the crap. This group of good-willed Catholics is the group from which Catholics discover Tradition and become Traditional Catholics. People enter Tradition on a regular basis!

We are to avoid the Novus Ordo Mass specifically, and stay aloof from the Conciliar Church, due to the danger of Modernist contagion and risk to our Catholic Faith.

However, that does not extend to refusing to speak to individual Catholics, excommunicating all Novus Ordo attendees as "non-Catholic", or rejecting all organizations whose employees attend the Novus Ordo.

How do I say it nicely? There are plenty of things that Trads can't or won't do. So God bless those "novus order" Catholics and organizations!

There are many GOOD, PRAISEWORTHY apostolates which Trads are unable/unwilling to do. I'm tempted to throw in a bunch of digs against Trads here. Ok, I'll be brief: they can be very discouraged, having a siege mentality, apocalyptic, negative, as well as apathetic/lazy and lacking ambition. I've been a Trad all my life, so I know Trads all too well, so I am well qualified to criticize them.

Sure, there are some organizations or businesses which are intimately tied up with the new Conciliar Religion. Modern Catholic book publishers, for example. 1. We have several Trad Catholic book publishers, so why not favor them? and 2. books are something that can be tainted by the new religion.

But Trads should NOT dismiss countless good apostolates which have no Trad equivalent, and/or which aren't completely nullified by contact with the Novus Ordo.

Don't pretend such organizations don't exist. There are plenty!

Pro-life movement, news and Catholic action organizations like LifeSiteNews
Church supply companies like Leaflet Missal and Autom -- they have modern crap for sale, but also many completely traditional products.
All the many individual companies who make cassocks, surplices, and religious goods to sell in catalogs like Autom and Leaflet Missal.
Organizations pushing important apparitions like Fatima
Organizations like Abby Johnson's which focus on finding alternate employment for Abortion industry workers (I bet no Trads are working on this one!)
Specific apostolates like orphanages, charities, helping the poor, soup kitchens, shelters, helping women in crisis pregnancies, helping women who regret abortions, "Project Rachael" -- the list is very long.

There aren't enough go-getter Trads WILLING and ABLE to create their own large apostolates to do these things. How can we write off as "novus ordo" these good apostolates, organizations, and businesses when we Trads have nothing to replace them with -- and they are doing good work which NEEDS to be done.

Long story short, there are Catholics in the Novus Ordo. Sure, many of them are defective materially in their knowledge, and maybe they even have bad habits thanks to their priests. But they have the Faith. They are there to serve God and do His will. They only *tolerate* the crap. This group of good-willed Catholics is the group from which Catholics discover Tradition and become Traditional Catholics. People enter Tradition on a regular basis!

It’s funny you should say this. I was wondering the other day if I should be donating to FOCUS. It is the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. They are the ones who got me back in to the Faith after going to Protestant services after my conversion from the Hare Krishnas. I’ve been thinking lately, that it might be wrong to give them money because it is a Novus Ordo apostolate. But I’ve come up with both reasons to donate to them and to not.
Also, as far as Trad apostolates go, check out my friend Kevin’s apostolate. It’s called Souls of the Christian Apostolate. He can be found on YouTube and a google search will bring up his website. He attends FSSP, but he is an intelligent and holy young man, working for students in Denver.

He attends FSSP, but he is an intelligent and holy young man, working for students in Denver.

Well, let's pray that he receives the grace of conversion before death.

I'M KIDDING! :)

It's a good example of what I mean though.

I personally consider the FSSP to be overall a very compromised group. But the individuals in the group are obviously Catholic! They are very conservative Catholics, certainly in possession of the Catholic Faith.

About the FSSP:

Traditional Catholics, from the very beginning, have held 3 essential principles:
1. Leave the Conciliar Church and Novus Ordo behind completely, regardless of having a Trad option lined up for Mass. Stay home on Sunday if no Tridentine Mass available.
2. Seek out SURE sacraments in "lifeboats": valid priests to offer both the Tridentine Mass and traditional Sacraments, and support them wherever they are, even at independently set up "Traditional chapels" which Rome considers "illicit" or "un-canonical". Treat them for all practical purposes like one's local parish.
3. Believe "I don't need permission from the Pope, or Modernist Rome, to stay Catholic". That is, believe in supplied jurisdiction for Mass and ALL sacraments, and have NO scruples about attaching oneself to, and fully supporting, such Trad chapels and building them up.

Those elements are common to 100% of Traditional Catholics. Anyone who scruples about going to Confession to a Trad priest because he doesn't have official jurisdiction or faculties from the local Bishop, for example, is not a Trad. He might be conservative, but if he doesn't understand that Catholics have a right to keep their Faith, and a need for the Sacraments, they have a lot to learn and therefore are not yet "Traditional Catholic".

Enter the FSSP:
Since part of their essence is "approval/permission from Rome" they are technically not Trad, since such approval was not part of the Trad package from the beginning. But more importantly, it actually contradicts principle #3, above. From the beginning of the movement in the 1970's, getting permission from Rome was certainly NOT one of the elements of the Traditional movement. So the FSSP is a new kind of conservative Catholic at best ("Indult Catholic"? "Latin Mass Catholic"?).

While Sedevacantists ALSO added another element to the Traditional manifesto, "4. The putative pope is not pope at all.", this is different in two main ways:
1. A good number of Trads believed this from the beginning. It was there, just not universal. So they are a specific sub-type of Trad, rather than SOMETHING OTHER THAN Trad.
2. Their additional belief doesn't contradict Trad principles 1-3.