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Author Topic: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc  (Read 638814 times)

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Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #815 on: September 04, 2026, 03:27:27 PM »
Why the Timing of the Munich Declaration?

It wasn't until 1981—that is, 19 years after his participation in Vatican II —that Monsignor Thuc began to privately attest to his acceptance of the conclusion regarding the vacancy of the Holy See.  In December 2001, Mr. Ébhard Heller (who was present at all 3 of the 1981 consecrations) published an article in which he stated:  "It should be noted that when Monsignor consecrated the first bishops without an explicit mandate—due to the vacancy of the Holy See—he did so explicitly in order to save the apostolic succession from the peril of extinction; the issues regarding the vacancy of the Holy See and the necessity of consecrating bishops without a papal mandate were discussed explicitly later on, in relation to the ecclesiastical situation of the time; nevertheless, Monsignor Thuc and the priest who received the episcopate from him were accused of having committed schismatic acts. It is the declaration regarding the vacancy of the Holy See dated February 25, 1982, that provides—from Monsignor Thuc himself—the true meaning of the absence of a papal mandate, the true justification for the absence of a papal mandate. Even today, objections are raised from various quarters that this declaration should have been published before the consecrations, because the latter could not be justified by the adoption of this position. Those who reason in this way assume that the Archbishop's position at the time of the first consecration differed from his position at the time the declaration was formulated; that is a position that cannot be accepted, because from our very first visit to Bishop Thuc—accompanied by the Reverend Dr. Kadzer, who had made himself available as the first candidate for consecration (though he passed away in the interim)—the discussion focused on the vacancy of the Holy See, the danger of losing the apostolic succession, and the falsification of the Holy Mass. A vote was taken on the positions adopted; it was only on this basis that the subsequent consecrations were performed. Furthermore, circuмstances at the time forced these consecrations to be carried out in secret. In this regard, one need only think of the Archbishop's hasty flight to Germany—for he rightly feared persecution after the consecrations had been leaked to the press by Father Barbara. Moreover, one must also consider the fact that, a few years later, he was actually kidnapped from the Rochester seminary in the United States and taken to an unknown destination." 

Correction: the Mass where Apb. Thuc publicly read his declaration took place on March 21, 1982.  He drafted it on February 25, 1982, but 
officially proclaimed the vacancy of the Holy See during a Mass celebrated in the Chapel of St. Michael in Munich on March 21, 1982.  


Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #816 on: September 04, 2026, 04:33:06 PM »


The Nature of Archbishop Thuc's Powers


An important issue needs to be raised here. It is often objected that the "Thuc" consecrations are illicit (i.e. contrary to the law of the Church). This is because, if any bishop consecrates another bishop without papal permission, they receive an excommunication reserved to the Holy See. In Archbishop Thuc's case, this is not so. Pius XI had conceded special powers to the Archbishop to perform consecrations without referring to Rome for approval (powers we should point out which were never revoked). In 1987 the traditionalist publication "Sous la Bannière" published the text of this "Motu Proprio."

MOTU PROPRIO OF POPE PIUS XI


     

Translation of the Latin Original(right)


"By virtue of the Plenitude of the powers of the Holy Apostolic See, we appoint as our Legate Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, titular bishop of Saigon, whom we invest with all the necessary powers, for purposes known to us."

Given at Rome at Saint Peter's, on 15 March 1938, the seventeenth year of our pontificate. Pope Pius XI,

Explanation of these powers

What does this docuмent mean ? Let us examine a parallel case in which Pius XI conceded identical powers to another prelate. On 10 March 1920, the same pope Pius XI dictated the same motu proprio for Mgr d'Herbigny (S.J.). The account is recorded in the book of Father Paul Lesourd, published by Lethielleux Editions under the title "Le Jesuite clandestine"

Here is the translation
Motu Proprio By virtue of the plenitude of the Apostolic power, we appoint as our Delegate Michel d'Herbigngy (S.J.), titular bishop of Troie, whom we invest with all the appropriate and necessary powers, for purposes known to us.
Given at Rome at Saint Peter's, on 10 March 1926, the fifth year of our pontificate. Pius XI, Pope


The two cases are analogous. With this Act of the Holy See, the two bishops received pontifical powers, similar to those of Patriarchs. The details of these powers are explained by Pius XI himself, as reported by Father Lesourd in the following terms:


"Orally, the Holy Father first enumerated in detail all the powers which he conferred, including the selection of priests to be ordained and to confer on them the episcopate without the need for them to have pontifical bulls, nor therefore to give their signatures inviting them to act accordingly on the strength of the oath."


"Then, after having at length set out in detail by word of mouth all the powers which were really extraordinary, the Pope resumed them most solemnly as follows"

"In one word, we grant to you all the pontifical powers of the Pope himself, which are not incommunicable by divine right."(translation from the French)

THE ARCHBISHOP AND THE HOLY SEE IN ROME




+Appointed by Pope Pius XI in 1938 as titular Bishop of Sesina and Apostolic Vicar in Vietnam.

+Motu Proprio of Pope Pius XI of March 15th, 1938 grants extraordinary authority to the Archbishop.



+December 8th, 1939 Pope Pius XII renews the extraordinary authority granted to the Archbishop. His authority to act with these special powers was never rescinded by subsequent popes.

+In 1957 the Archbishop founds the Catholic University of Dalat.


+On November 24th, 1960 Pope John XXIII names Bishop Thuc as Archbishop of Hue and also as Assistant to the Pontifical Throne.


+In 1968 the Archbishop is appointed as the titular Bishop of Bulla Regia. Sadly, with the various compromises and overtures of the Vatican towards atheistic communism, Pope Paul VI (in order to place a more sympathetic bishop in Vietnam) forces the Archbishop into a virtual retirement. Pope Paul VI will go down in history for his betrayal of the Catholic people of Vietnam, for the suffering of not only Archbishop Thuc of Vietnam, but of Cardinal Mindzenty of Hungary.









Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #817 on: September 05, 2026, 07:22:35 AM »
http://www.einsicht-aktuell.de/index.php?svar=2&ausgabe_id=308&artikel_id=3659

Fr. Barbara Wanted Abp. Thuc to Consecrate Him and Was Denied- He Spitefully Revealed the Secret Consecrations Endangering Abp. Thuc
Dr. Heller testfies:
"The first consecrations had to be administered and kept secret for the time being, for the same reason as Pius XII had episcopal consecrations administered in Russia secretly. One had to be careful as Mgr. Thuc was constantly watched. For all involved there was (and still is) a danger, and one was aware of it. In spite of it the secrecy was not kept out of fear – nobody was frightened! - but to be at all able to administer the consecrations. Would it have been done publicly, the other side would have done everything to prevent the consecrations to take place. There were witnesses at the consecrations. And apart from this they are docuмented in detail, also with photographs. But after the consecrations had been spitefully betrayed by Father Barbara/France, who wanted himself to be consecrated a bishop, (and who did the same as Montini with the consecrated bishops in Russia), the following consecrations were administered publicly."


Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #818 on: September 06, 2026, 07:13:54 AM »
http://www.einsicht-aktuell.de/index.php?svar=2&ausgabe_id=310&artikel_id=3681

THE "BARBARA" CASE
by Kurt Hiller
(Translation by André Perlant)


For more than 12 years, here in Munich, we have followed the activity of Fr. Barbara. We met him several times and had discussions on both theology and ecclesial politics in order to collaborate in the struggle. Alas, the common front against the enemies of Christianity could never be achieved with him as we hoped. The reason for this failure quickly became apparent. While we always took clear and logical positions on the issues that arise today, Fr. Barbara was left behind. It was only when problems were resolved by others that he entered the fray, promptly taking up the arguments of others; in doing so he did not forget to proclaim with emphasis that the very ones on which he relied had seen nothing of the problem, or at least seen everything wrong. I will just give a few examples.

During our "March on Rome" our enemies had succeeded in transforming the program of the demonstration in Saint Peter's Square: this is why we declined to participate, for hours, in prayers for our Holy Father Pope Paul VI. While our small group prayed isolated, (1) in front of the square in front of the Basilica,  Fr. Barbara worked with the large crowd of those who, apparently, had not yet asked themselves the question of the heresy of Paul VI, and stayed with them.

Then, while the invalidity of the conciliar synaxis had been demonstrated for a long time, Fr. Barbara did indeed continue, for months, to follow the NOM and to practice "Reformed celebrations". He understood with some delay the ambiguity of the "new mass" to get to where he is today.

He proceeded in the same way towards Marcel Lefèbvre, with whom he maintained contact not so long ago, while the line followed by "Mgr" was published and known everywhere.

Here, by slightly modifying his argument, he shows that the problem of the pseudo-pope's deposition is not as simple as he first thought. Consequently we are still waiting in vain for the details of the procedure which seems suitable for the deposition of the "pope" and the restoration of the Church.

Failing which, Fr. Barbara has opened up a new field of activity: he tirelessly seeks to prove that Mgr Thuc, and the recently consecrated bishops and priests, are schismatic, suspended and excommunicated, that they have committed sacrileges, and that we are not allowed to attend their masses. In doing so he does not fear offending others and spreading a whole series of untruths. In the five publications that I currently have before me Fr. Barbara indulges in contradictory charges and considerations whose illogic I would like to briefly indicate.

I. Secret of consecrations

Fr. Barbara writes:
"For a priestly ordination or episcopal coronation to be lawful certain conditions must be met: .... That ordination or coronation takes on a public character even in circuмstances of persecution (which is not currently the case in our countries), because secrecy, legitimate with regard to persecutors, is never so towards the faithful who must be sure of dealing with a bishop or a Catholic priest.' (FORTES IN FIDE, n° 19, p. 47)

After which Fr. Barbara criticizes Mgr Thuc for having carried out consecrations in secret, which were therefore illicit.

In n° 17, p. 121 (so shortly before in 1982) he had written in the chapter entitled: "Our meetings with bishops who were still Catholic":
Who are these bishops who listened to us and accepted our argument? You will easily understand that it is not possible for me to point them out to you. Not only will I not give any names, but I will not even mention the countries they inhabit. If we could know them, you can imagine how not only those of modernist Rome, but also a few false brothers, would be responsible for dissuading them from acting."

And on page 123 he continues:
"...St Athanasius carried out his activity mainly in hiding."

And a little further on the same page:
"He (St Athanasius) continued the fight still in hiding"...

And Fr. Barbara specifies shortly after:
"Wherever he could Athanasius consecrated Catholic bishops, who, also in semi-clandestinity, maintained apostolic succession. This second point is very important."

How to explain these contradictory positions of Fr. Barbara, because n° 19 contradicts n° 17? It's very simple! When Fr. Barbara wrote n° 17, he was unaware of the latest consecrations made by Mgr Thuc, which he now vehemently condemns. At that time, he himself wanted to be conferred the episcopal coronation, as he emphatically declared in Munich, before 6 witnesses on June 17, 1980, and as he confirmed in the same n° 17, on page 126! Once he has succeeded, then, through the now well-known process of the progress of his knowledge, in believing that the necessity of consecrating in clandestinity must give way to the sine qua non condition of publicity of ordinations, he can begin persecutions against the new clergy, the new bishops, without feeling any embarrassment. Accessory but revealing phenomenon.  Let us note with what beautiful coordinatation and what speed the newspapers of France and Mexico published the sensational news of the coronations on the same day (January 12, 1982). The archbishop of Hue was besieged by journalists, spies, ecclesiastics sent by the bishop of Fréjus, semi-conservative priests, assisted or not by tape recorders and witnesses. When he was just recovering from a malignant flu, it was impossible for him to leave his room. This is what Fr. Barbara (did) after Mgr Thuc had firmly declined Father's invitations to Paris.  



Offline Meg

Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #819 on: September 06, 2026, 07:15:50 PM »


The Nature of Archbishop Thuc's Powers




An important issue needs to be raised here. It is often objected that the "Thuc" consecrations are illicit (i.e. contrary to the law of the Church). This is because, if any bishop consecrates another bishop without papal permission, they receive an excommunication reserved to the Holy See. In Archbishop Thuc's case, this is not so. Pius XI had conceded special powers to the Archbishop to perform consecrations without referring to Rome for approval (powers we should point out which were never revoked). In 1987 the traditionalist publication "Sous la Bannière" published the text of this "Motu Proprio."



MOTU PROPRIO OF POPE PIUS XI




   

Translation of the Latin Original(right)


"By virtue of the Plenitude of the powers of the Holy Apostolic See, we appoint as our Legate Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, titular bishop of Saigon, whom we invest with all the necessary powers, for purposes known to us."



Given at Rome at Saint Peter's, on 15 March 1938, the seventeenth year of our pontificate. Pope Pius XI,

Explanation of these powers



What does this docuмent mean ? Let us examine a parallel case in which Pius XI conceded identical powers to another prelate. On 10 March 1920, the same pope Pius XI dictated the same motu proprio for Mgr d'Herbigny (S.J.). The account is recorded in the book of Father Paul Lesourd, published by Lethielleux Editions under the title "Le Jesuite clandestine"



Here is the translation
Motu Proprio By virtue of the plenitude of the Apostolic power, we appoint as our Delegate Michel d'Herbigngy (S.J.), titular bishop of Troie, whom we invest with all the appropriate and necessary powers, for purposes known to us.
Given at Rome at Saint Peter's, on 10 March 1926, the fifth year of our pontificate. Pius XI, Pope



The two cases are analogous. With this Act of the Holy See, the two bishops received pontifical powers, similar to those of Patriarchs. The details of these powers are explained by Pius XI himself, as reported by Father Lesourd in the following terms:




"Orally, the Holy Father first enumerated in detail all the powers which he conferred, including the selection of priests to be ordained and to confer on them the episcopate without the need for them to have pontifical bulls, nor therefore to give their signatures inviting them to act accordingly on the strength of the oath."




"Then, after having at length set out in detail by word of mouth all the powers which were really extraordinary, the Pope resumed them most solemnly as follows"



"In one word, we grant to you all the pontifical powers of the Pope himself, which are not incommunicable by divine right."(translation from the French)

THE ARCHBISHOP AND THE HOLY SEE IN ROME




+Appointed by Pope Pius XI in 1938 as titular Bishop of Sesina and Apostolic Vicar in Vietnam.


+Motu Proprio of Pope Pius XI of March 15th, 1938 grants extraordinary authority to the Archbishop.





+December 8th, 1939 Pope Pius XII renews the extraordinary authority granted to the Archbishop. His authority to act with these special powers was never rescinded by subsequent popes.



+In 1957 the Archbishop founds the Catholic University of Dalat.




+On November 24th, 1960 Pope John XXIII names Bishop Thuc as Archbishop of Hue and also as Assistant to the Pontifical Throne.




+In 1968 the Archbishop is appointed as the titular Bishop of Bulla Regia. Sadly, with the various compromises and overtures of the Vatican towards atheistic communism, Pope Paul VI (in order to place a more sympathetic bishop in Vietnam) forces the Archbishop into a virtual retirement. Pope Paul VI will go down in history for his betrayal of the Catholic people of Vietnam, for the suffering of not only Archbishop Thuc of Vietnam, but of Cardinal Mindzenty of Hungary.






Wow....I wasn't aware that Abp. Thuc was granted extraordinary powers by Pope Pius XII, and that they were never rescinded. That seems like a big deal. Of course the Archbishop needed to consecrate bishops during communism in Vietnam, but Pope Pius XII must have trusted and respected him a great deal.

Thanks for posting this info, Incred.