Author Topic: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc (Read 282581 times)

TomGubbinsKimmage · « **Reply #725 on:** August 14, 2026, 06:55:01 PM »

Quote from: Persto on August 14, 2026, 08:53:34 AM

There is a list at this link:
http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html

The Boyle list has a total of 15 consecrations by Abp. Thuc, and some of these are disputed Abp. Thuc is only responsible for the actual consecrations that he performed. It is not just, to say that he is responsible for 400+ consecrations. Each bishop is only responsible for the consecrations that he performs, and not for the subsequent consecrations performed by bishops that he consecrates. Those consecrations would be the responsibility of the bishop carrying out the consecration.

They are the fruits of his wreckleness

Meg · « **Reply #726 on:** August 14, 2026, 09:03:23 PM »

Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on August 14, 2026, 06:55:01 PM

They are the fruits of his wreckleness

Did you mean to say recklessness?

Though I quite like the word 'wreckleness,' even though it doesn't appear to exist in the English language. When I first looked at it, I tried to pronounce it like 'wreck-ell-ness.' It has certain ring to it.

Persto · « **Reply #727 on:** August 15, 2026, 08:12:35 AM »

http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html

Here is the list of the 15 Consecrations (Correction: 16) on the Boyle List:

The Consecrations for the Palmarians:

1) 01/11/1976 Clemente Ferdinand Dominguez Gómez (b in 1946; still living).
Ordained a priest for the Carmelite Order of the Holy Face on 01/01/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
He formed in 1978 the Holy Palmarian Church. He has been, since August 1978, Pope Gregory XVII of the Holy Palmarian Church. A SPANIARD

2) 01/11/1976 Manuel Isidoro Maria Alonso Corral (b. in 19xx; still living).
Ordained a priest for the Carmelite Order of the Holy Face on 01/01/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at xxxxx, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
Bishop Alonso Corral became a Cardinal and the Secretary of State for the Holy Palmarian Church. A SPANIARD

3) 01/11/1976 Camilo Leandro Estevez Puga de Maside (b. in 19xx; d. in 1999).
Ordained a Roman Catholic priest on 01/01/19xx at xxxx, Galicia, Spain, by Msgr. xxxxx, Roman Catholic Bishop of xxxx.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. A SPANIARD

4) 01/11/1976 Michael Thomas xxxxx Donnelly (b. in 19xx; d. in 1982).
Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Congregation of xxxxx on 01/01/19xx at xxxx, Ireland, by Msgr. xxxxx, Roman Catholic Bishop of xxxx. Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. AN IRISHMAN. Bp Donnelly never consecrated anyone. He was only a part of the Palmarian movement for a few months. He left, considering his and the other first consecrations to be "wrong."

5) 01/11/1976 Francis Bernard Fulgencio Sandler (b. in 19xx; still living).
Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Order of Saint Benedict on 01/01/1958 at xxxx, USA, by Msgr. xxxxx, Roman Catholic Bishop of xxxx.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

The Consecrations for the Old Catholics:

6) 07/10/1976 P. E. M. Labat d'Arnoux (b. in 19xx; still living) - This is but a reported consecration by Msgr. Thuc. It may never have occurred. Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of xxxxx. Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 02108/1976 at xxxxx, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He resides at Seignelay, France.

7) 02/08/1977 Jean Laborie (b. in 1919; d. in 1996). Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of xxxxx.
Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 02/08/1977 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He had already been consecrated a bishop on 10/02/1966 at xxxxx by Jean Pierre Danyel, a bishop of the Sainte Église Celtique. Later he was consecrated sub conditione a bishop on 08/20/1968 at xxxxx by Louis Jean Stanislaus Canivet, a bishop known as "Patriarch Aloysius Basilius III" of the Patriarchate Orthodoxe de l'Europe Latine. He was a bishop for the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle.

8) 03/19/1977 Claude Nanta de Torrini (b. in 19xx; still living). - This is but a reported consecration by Magr. Thuc. It may never have occurred.

9) 10/19/1978 Michel Fernandez (b. in 19xx; still living). - This is but a reported consecration by Magr. Thuc. It may never have occurred.
Ordained a priest on 06/xx/1974 at xxxxx by Jean Laborie, a bishop of the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle. Ordained sub conditione a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by André Maurice Alexandre Enos, a bishop of the xxxxx. Ordained again sub conditione a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church. Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Isadoro Maria Alonzo Corral ("Cardinal Isidoro"), a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church. From 1978 to 19xx he was a bishop for the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle. He has been retired since xx/xx/19xx.

10) 10/19/1978 Roger Jean-Marie Kozik (b. in 19xx; still living).
e-mail address: FNDUSA@aol.com Ordained a priest on 06/xx/1974 at xxxxx by Jean Laborie, a bishop of the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle. Ordained sub conditione a priest on xxxxx at xxxxx by Bishop André Maurice Alexandre Enos of the xxxxx. Ordained again sub conditione a priest on 05/xx/ at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church. Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Isidoro Maria Alonzo Corral ("Cardinal Isidoro"), a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church.

The Consecrations for the Sedevacantists:

11) 05/07/1981 Michel Louis Guérard des Lauriers (b. in 1898; d. in 1988). Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Order of Preachers on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by Msgr. xxxxx, Bishop of xxxxx. Consecrated a bishop for the Latin-Rite Catholic Church on 05/07/1981 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He was a Bishop for the Latin-Rite Catholic Church, 1981-1988.
He resided at Etiolles, France. He has since 19xx been a bishop for the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle and for Fraternité Notre Dame.
He resides at Le Fréchou, France.

12) 10/17/1981 Moisés Carmona-Rivera (b. in 1912; d. in 1991). Ordained a Roman Catholic priest on 11/xx/1939 at xxxxx by Msgr. Leopoldo Diaz Escudero, Bishop of xxxxx. Consecrated a bishop on 10/17/1981 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He served as a bishop in Acapulco, Mexico, for the Union Católico Trento, 1981-1991. Click here for a Letter from Bp. Carmona-Rivera explaining his position. He resided at Acapulco, Mexico.

13) 10/17/1981 Adolfo Zamora Hernandez (b. in 1910; d. in 1987). Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Congregation of the Fathers of Mercy, on 12/23/1939 at xxxxx by Msgr. Pedro Vera y Zuris, Bishop of xxxxx. Consecrated a bishop on 10/17/1981 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He was a bishop in Acapulco, Mexico, for the Union Católico Trento, 1982-1987. Click here for a lengthy letter by Bp. Zamora explaining the circuмstances of his becoming a bishop.

The Final Consecrations:

14) 04/18/1982 Luigi Boni (b. in 19xx; d. in 1993).
- This is but a reported consecration by Msgr. Thuc. It may never have occurred.
Ordained a priest on xx/xx/1951 at Rome, Italy, by Msgr. _____, Roman Catholic bishop of xxxxx. Consecrated a bishop on 04/18/1982 at Loano, Italy, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He resided at xxxxx.

15) 04/18/1982 Jean Gérard de la Passion Antoine Laurent Charles Roux (b. in 1951; still living).
e-mail address: MARIE-REINE2@wanadoo.fr Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxx by _____ Girard, a bishop of xxxx.
Allegedly consecrated a bishop on 04/18/1982 at Loano, Italy, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
The truth of Bp Roux's ordination(s) and consecration(s) is hard to ascertain: Bp Roux resides at Chaillac, France. There were 3 websites critical of his claim- but they have all since disappeared.

16) 09/25/1982 Christian Marie Datessen (b. in 1934; still living). Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of xxxxx.
onsecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Isadoro Maria Alonzo Corral ("Cardinal Isidoro"), a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church. Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He had already been consecrated a bishop on 09/10/1981 at xxxxx by André Maurice Alexandre Enos, a bishop of the Old Holy Catholic Church [Vilatte and Mathew lineages]. "Mgr Datessen et la 'Fraternité Notre Dame de Bethléem'" He has since 198x been a bishop-abbot for the Union des Petites Églises Catholiques, as well as the head of Priory of St. Joseph of the Fraternity of Our Lady of Bethehem. He resides at Castelsarrasin, France.

Persto · « **Reply #728 on:** August 15, 2026, 08:40:44 AM »

Quote from: TomGubbinsKimmage on August 10, 2026, 11:20:57 AM

Palmarian Church Clemente Domínguez y Gómez 192

High reliability. Docuмented by scholars like Magnus Lundberg.

Sedevacantist Moisés Carmona, Adolfo Zamora ~35 High reliability. Public records of CMRI, Trento, and SSPV.

Sedeprivationist Guérard des Lauriers ~25 High reliability. Records of IMBC and RCI.

Independent (Laborie) Jean Laborie ~80–100+ Low reliability due to ISM obscurity, but highly prolific activity.

Independent (Datessen) Christian Datessen ~50–70+ Low reliability. Includes Gnostic and Old Catholic intersections.

Other Independent Kozik, Fernandez, et al. ~30

Small, isolated groups like the "Tae Kwon Do Nuns" sect.

TOTAL ESTIMATE ~412 – 452+ The claim of >400 is statistically supported.

Comparing TGK's Numbers With the Boyle List:

Palmarian Church   Clemente Domínguez y Gómez   192
Boyle list: Total= 225    TGK 192 vs Boyle 225

Sedevacantist   Moisés Carmona, Adolfo Zamora   ~35
Boyle list: Carmon 6, Zamora 0. Additional lineage: 7. Total= 13.   TGK 35 vs Boyle 13

Sedeprivationist   Guérard des Lauriers   ~25
Boyle list: 3. Additional lineage: 10. Total 13. TGK 25 vs Boyle 13

Independent:  Jean Laborie   ~80–100+
Boyle list: 0.   TGK 80-100+ vs Boyle 0

Independent:  Christian Datessen   ~50–70+
Boyle list: Datessen consecrated 2. Additional lineage: 25. Total: 27.    TGK 50-70+ vs Boyle's 27

Other Independent   Kozik, Fernandez, et al.   ~30
Boyle list: Kozik 1, Fernandez 0.    TGK 30 vs Boyle 1

TOTAL ESTIMATE by TGK: ~412 – 452+
  vs Boyle: 279

TomGubbinsKimmage · « **Reply #729 on:** August 15, 2026, 08:48:49 AM »

No coherent reason give for rejecting the full 400, other than you just dont like to accept reality.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc (Read 282581 times)

TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc

Meg

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Persto

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Persto

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TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc