Author Topic: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc (Read 258984 times)

Persto · « **Reply #750 on:** **Yesterday** at 04:58:16 PM »

Quote from: Persto on Yesterday at 09:23:29 AM

Ladislaus your questioning the photo was very good. A photo exists, but the date of the photo is 1979, and the actual consecration was reported to be on 2-8-77. So this is NOT a consecration day photo as I thought it was. It really helps to check those dates!

Here is the photo:

The caption of the photo:

This appears to be a photo of the ordination day of Fr. Georges Gutierrez by Bp. Laborie

IT IS EASY TO ASSUME THIS IS THE CONSECRATION PHOTO- AND THE CAPTION CONFIRMS THIS

Google Translate:
His Excellency Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc consecrates His Excellency Msgr. Laborie as bishop; Msgr. Laborie ordains the Reverend Georges Gutierrez as a priest on June 29, 1979.

It is easy to assume this photo is taken on the day of consecration. Since the date does not match the actual date of 2-8-77 on the Boyle list, and other sources, that is problematic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Laborie
According to Wikipedia: Bernard Vignot says in a book called Les Marges du christianisme: "Sectes", dissidences, ésotérisme (transl. The Margins of Christianity: "Cults", Dissidences, Esotericism) edited by Jean-Pierre Chantin. Pages 147-148: "Thuc's consecration of Laborie was not made public until the 1980s."

Persto · « **Reply #751 on:** **Today** at 07:51:20 AM »

Quote from: Persto on August 16, 2026, 09:08:05 AM

Are They All Legit?
1) - 5) Palmerian's, verified with Photographic proof, 1976
6) Labat d'Arnoux- no proof exists that this occurred
7) Jean Laborie, a photo exists of this sub conditione consecration, on 02/08/1977 at Toulon
8) Claude Nanta de Torrini, no proof exists that this occurred
9) Fernandez, no proof exists that this occurred
10) Kozik, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, but no photo or docuмentation
11) Guerard des Lauriers, verified with witnesses and photos, 1981
12) Carmona, Verified with witnesses and photos, 1981
13) Zamora, " " " "
14) Luigi Bono, Fraudulent- allegedly took place on 4-18-82 in Italy, when Abp. Thuc was residing in Germany living with Dr. Heller who testifies that it was fraud.
15) Roux, Fraudulent- allegedly took place also on 4-18-82 in Italy, Abp. Thuc exonerated because he was in Germany.
16) Dattessen, Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Alonzo Corral a Palermian bishop.

Since 2 of the reported consecrations of Abp. Thuc on the Boyle list are verifiably fraudulent, the total number becomes 14- instead of 16, and 3 of those 14 are doubtful.

7) Jean Laborie, a photo exists of this sub conditione consecration, on 02/08/1977 at Toulon
CORRECTION:
A photo dated 1979 exists, but it is NOT proof of a sub conditione
consecration on 2-8-77.

Laborie: No proof exists that this occured= 14 possible with 4 doubtful

Persto · « **Reply #752 on:** **Today** at 07:55:47 AM »

http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Msgr_Chadwick_on_Bp_Roux.html

Why Falsely Claim Consecration by Abp Thuc?
Some probable answers: money, fame, person interest, control, to infiltrate and sabotage the Traditional movement.

Here is an example:
Jean Gerard Roux: The so called claimed "consecration" of Jean Gerard Roux never happened- and this is proven- but that did not stop this unscrupulous person from "consecrating" 7 others, who in turn "consecrated" 2 more.

Who is Jean-Gérard Roux?
"Jean-Gérard Roux is someone who has caused a tremendous amount of harm to the movement of independent traditional Roman Catholicism. Wherever he has been, a trail of destruction has been left: people cheated out of sums of money, but more importantly, he has left scandal and bitterness among Christian believers and clergy alike.

What is important is that he is going around telling people that he was consecrated a bishop directly by Archbishop Ngô-dinh-Thuc in 1982.

...I have been personally an eye-witness to his mytho-mania - habitual lying and inventing facts that had no historical basis. Some might call Roux a gentle rogue. Others would see something much more sinister in this person with a charm and seductive approach paralleled by few. He presents himself as a converted Novus Ordo priest, consecrated to the episcopate by Archbishop Thuc, and leading a saintly life.

The reality is different: by all accounts convicted in the courts for offences connected with obtaining money by deceit, lying and producing false docuмents of his manufacture. He claims ordinations and past ministries in the official Roman Catholic Church - where a simple check with the Chancery Office or other authorities would dismiss his claims in a puff of smoke!

It is from a motive of defending the memory of Archbishop Thuc and the whole of the traditional Catholic movement that Roux has had to be exposed by several persons: Fréderic Luz in his book Le Soufre et l'Encens, the anonymous French author of the Episcopi Vagantes Internet site, and this present article."

Msgr. Chadwick

From a French Forum:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://archives.leforumcatholique.org/consulte/message.php?arch=2&num=78814

Author: marie-joseph

Subject: because...

Date: 2004-12-22 09:51:06

Jean-Gérard Roux "celebrated" (??? I do not know if he is a priest) according to the rite of St Pius V, that the domain of Mary Queen, where he had "taken power" was before that, initially, a mass point of the SSPX, there still remains a plaque at the entrance reminding us that the blessing of the chapel by Mgr Lefebvre (but Roux had nothing to do with it at that time!)
On the other hand, in this chapel, there were always leaflets for Flavigny and the SSPX.
Since journalists are generally completely ignorant in these areas, it probably didn't take much for them to draw conclusions. Let us say in their defense that "Mgr" Roux claimed to be Mgr Lefebvre, but that the Fraternity always warned the faithful against him, certainly knowing his more than doubtful situation.

Persto · « **Reply #753 on:** **Today** at 07:57:21 AM »

https://www.fraternitenotredame.com/FND/founder.php

Who is Roger Jean Marie Kozik? Known as "Bp. Jean Marie"

A Supposed Visionary in France: (1977)

https://brill.com/view/journals/nu/67/2-3/article-p191_4.xml
The Fraternité Notre Dame is a traditionalist Catholic Marian movement founded in 1977 by Bishop Jean Marie Kozik, né Roger Kozik. Kozik received monthly visions, primarily of the Virgin Mary, and established the Fraternité as a Marian devotional movement in Fréchou, southern France. This article analyzes and contextualizes the history of the Fraternité Notre Dame and its founder Bishop Jean Marie, showing how Jean Marie and his movement responded as religious entrepreneurs, innovating in response to the growing tension between the Fraternites and their religious-cultural context, which culminated in their choice to leave France and reestablish themselves in Chicago.

From the Boyle list:
He was said to have been consecrated by Abp. Thuc on 10-19-1978 -the same day as Michel Fernandez - who Boyle says: "This is but a reported consecration by Magr. Thuc. It may never have occurred."

10-19-1978 Roger Jean Marie Kozik (b. in 19xx; still living).
e-mail address: FNDUSA@aol.com
Ordained a priest on 06/xx/1974 at xxxxx by Jean Laborie, a bishop of the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle. Ordained sub conditione a priest on xxxxx at xxxxx by Bishop André Maurice Alexandre Enos of the xxxxx. Ordained again sub conditione a priest on 05/xx/ at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church.
Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Isidoro Maria Alonzo Corral ("Cardinal Isidoro"), a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church.
He has since 19xx been a bishop for the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle and for Fraternité Notre Dame.
He resides at Le Fréchou, France.

A Suspiciously Long List of Supernatural Gifts:

Kozik Reported To Be A Mason:
https://nyrotaryhistory.org/newsletter/Newsletter_11-10-2003.htm

The Rotary Club of New York
www.NYRotary.org www.NewYorkCityRotary.org

November 10, 2003
Fellow Rotarians,

The speaker at our next New York Rotary meeting on November 11^th will be the Reverend Bishop Jean Marie Roger Kozik, who is a member of our legendary Rotary Club. He is also the Founder and Superior General of Fraternite Notre Dame, who is devoted to divine worship and humanitarian assistance of the needy, with no distinction of class, race, sex or creed. They were originally founded in France and also operate missions in America, Martinique, Haiti, Niger and Mongolia. You can read more about the Reverend Bishop Jean Marie Roger Kozik and Fraternite Notre Dame on their website at www.fraternitenotredame.com.

Persto · « **Reply #754 on:** **Today** at 10:48:07 AM »

Quote from: Persto on Today at 07:51:20 AM

7) Jean Laborie, a photo exists of this sub conditione consecration, on 02/08/1977 at Toulon
CORRECTION:
A photo dated 1979 exists, but it is NOT proof of a sub conditione
consecration on 2-8-77.

Laborie: No proof exists that this occured= 14 possible with 4 doubtful

Correction:

Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 07, 2020, 12:14:07 PM

In his testimony on the subject of Thuc's consecration of Laborie, Dr. Hiller testified that Thuc acknowledged consecrating Laborie with the understanding that consecrating him a bishop would make him a Roman Catholic:
"I then asked Dr. Hiller: 'But if he [Laborie] was an Old Catholic, how could he [Archbishop Thuc] think to continue the Catholic Church through an Old Catholic?' Dr. Hiller replied:
He thought that when he would be ordained as priest or consecrated, he would be a Catholic, a Roman Catholic, not an Old Catholic. He knowed [sic] exactly that the Old Catholic Church isn't the Roman Catholic Church.
(Excerpted from The Sacred and the Profane by Bishop Clarence Kelly, Seminary Press,1997, page 60)"

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc (Read 258984 times)

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