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Author Topic: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc  (Read 509602 times)

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Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #820 on: September 07, 2026, 08:00:48 AM »
http://www.einsicht-aktuell.de/index.php?svar=2&ausgabe_id=310&artikel_id=3681

THE "BARBARA" CASE  (Continued)
by Kurt Hiller
(Translation by André Perlant)



II. Mgr Pierre, Martin Thuc and the conciliar church.

a) Fr. Barbara writes:
"Martin Ngô Dinh Thuc, former archbishop of Hue, has always declared himself in union with the leaders of the new church, whether Paul VI or JP. II." (STRONG IN THE FOl, n°9; 1982; p. 46)

This allegation by Fr. Barbara is false! What is true on the contrary, as far as we know, is that since we have known him, and this has been many years, Mgr Thuc has continued to assert his total and unequivocal opposition to the conciliar church and to its leaders. The countless letters and docuмents he sent to us during this period prove this without a shadow of a doubt.

b) Fr. Barbara writes:
"...that he said mass in communion with JP. II and the Bishop of Toulon, Mgr Barthe ...."FORTES IN FIDE, n° 19, p. 45.)

This allegation by Fr. Barbara is false! What is true on the contrary is that during almost 200 masses (two hundred!) that we served for Mgr Thuc, not a single one corresponds to this description.

c) Fr. Barbara writes:
"....that every year on Maundy Thursday, he concelebrates a mass with this same bishop in the new rite."

This allegation is essentially false. What is true, however, is that only once (1981) did Mgr Thuc appear in a concelebration. Bishop Thuc described to us very precisely the circuмstances of the event. He expressed orally and in writing his contrition in a clear and canonical manner to the new bishops.

A comment must be made on the merits of the case. Bishop Thuc attended the Vatican school of diplomacy; he is of noble family, one of the first in Indochina; for years he directed the International Seminary of Rome which had around 850 aspirants to the priesthood. Visitors who are too curious, whom he does not know, often receive the answer they deserve, a diplomatic response! I concede that I myself would answer differently; However, we must also understand the prudence of Mgr Thuc who, after all the suffering he has suffered, is afraid of being mistreated.

d) Fr. Barbara writes:
"... Every day, after celebrating the ancient mass in his room, he (Mgr Thuc) goes to the cathedral to attend all the services." (LETTER TO FAITHFUL PRIESTS, P. 2)

This allegation by Fr. Barbara is false. What is true, on the contrary, is that Mgr Thuc goes to the neighboring cathedral only to leave his only room, narrow and dark; he sits at the back of the nave, in the half-light, to quietly say his breviary!


Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #821 on: September 07, 2026, 09:01:16 AM »
Is there any general conclusion as to why Fr. Barbara would take this route? Was he some kind of agent running a smear campaign or was he simply doing it because +Thuc refused to consecrate him? Or maybe there's a third reason there somewhere?


Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #822 on: September 07, 2026, 01:56:39 PM »
Good question!

I think Persto has a pleasant surprise in store for us. 

:popcorn:

Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #823 on: September 07, 2026, 04:28:06 PM »
Good question!

I think Persto has a pleasant surprise in store for us.

:popcorn:

I don't doubt that and I've really enjoyed this thread. Of all my saved threads, this has to be up there in terms of views. I think it's over 425,000 - a real pot boiler.

Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #824 on: September 08, 2026, 08:11:10 AM »
http://www.einsicht-aktuell.de/index.php?svar=2&ausgabe_id=310&artikel_id=3681
THE "BARBARA" CASE  (Continued)
by Kurt Hiller

III. Palmar de Troya

Fr. Barbara writes:
"I owe it to truth and charity to say that Mgr Ngô dinh Thuc is consecrating bishop of the schismatics of Palmar de Troya... "(FORTES IN FIDE, n° 19, p. 45)

It must be said on this subject that it was only after careful reflection and in-depth examination that Mgr Thuc carried out the first five coronations of bishops, to ensure apostolic succession. He explained it then, as he still does today, unequivocally. The Einsicht magazine at that time had already warmly welcomed the news of these coronations. Bishop Thuc's conduct is not only free from reproach, but on the contrary worthy of praise! All sanctions allegedly carried by "our mother the Church", as pronounced by Fr. Barbara, e.g. any suspension or excommunication is pointless and unreasonable, because Mgr Thuc acted in the direction of the Tadition of the Church in a very lucid manner!

We cannot blame him for the fact that the "Palmarian episcopes" subsequently refused to listen to him and that Clement Dominguez ended up proclaiming himself pope; no more than the errors of all the other ordinands consecrated by Mgr Thuc and Fr. Barbara would like to hang on his neck like a stone of scandal. Fr. Barbara must on the other hand answer the following question which is essential: Why did 99.99% of bishops fall into conciliar heresy and apostasy? Isn’t that a thousand times worse than making missteps?"

We can only express respect and admiration for Mgr Thuc. Despite the failure of the "Trojans", the difficulties created by other ordinations, despite all the trials he suffered during his life (eight members of his family were murdered), despite his great age, despite the persecutions and defamations of Fr. Barbara, his Faith has not failed and he has kept his humor!

IV. The Schism:

Fr. Barbara speaks of one
"... notorious schism" (STRONGS IN THE FOl, n° 9, p. 48)

And in another place:
Others, giving in to despair, do not hesitate to take the step of schism. They mourn the apostolicity of the Church, which is guaranteed by the words of Our Lord; they want at all costs to have the sacraments, even if it is at the cost of sacrilege." (LETTER TO FAITHFUL PRIESTS, 1982, P. 3)

Canon 1325, § 2, defines schism as follows:
You can become schismatic in two ways
a) by refusing to submit to the authority of the Pope;
b) but also by refusing to hold communion with the members of the Church who are subject to it

Do these definitions apply to the case of Mgr Thuc? According to the prerequisites of Fr. B. the main accusation does not hold:
"... That the bishop is regular, that is to say that he is not subject to any ecclesiastical censorship or other prohibition, from the Catholic point of view that is.
- That this bishop acts expressly in defense of the Church, which implies on his part, the rupture of communion with the new church, at least implicitly (emphasis added) (FORTES IN FIDE, n° 19, p. 47)

Bishop Thuc fulfilled exactly these conditions. Troya's ordinations only bring us back to the same data. The measures taken by Pius XII and that Fr. Barbara is happy to apply, aimed at the bishops of communist China. Unfortunately times have changed a lot. Pius XII is NO MORE! All the bishops, or almost all, have denied Tradition. But Bishop Thuc has long since broken with the church of these apostates. Like St Athanasius of old, he acted in secret, cautiously hiding his tracks, until the manhunt unleashed by Fr. Barbara does not force him to launch into open ground. He in fact publicly declared his goal on February 25, 1982 and we have five essays in his handwriting of the text, which he read during a solemn mass, which he celebrated the following March 21,in the St Michel chapel on rue Baader in Munich, a text which was also reproduced according to the express wish of the prelate in the March n° of the magazine Einsicht published at the same time.

And in the meantime, what is Fr. Barbara doing?

Above all, he travels and against all odds he meets priests in every possible country. What came out of all these meetings? Absolutely nothing! The priests consulted feel flattered, but, unfortunately, they are very busy and busy with their obligations. They have nothing reasonable to implement! And this result of years of activity is described as satisfactory!

This fundamental activity is crowned, after hard efforts, by discussions with
"... bishops who, deep in their hearts, have kept the Catholic Faith, but who have been silent for 16 years, and leave the sheep without pastors." (LETTER TO FAITHFUL PRIESTS, p. 5)

So it is not difficult to understand that Fr. Barbara has no qualms about seeking information from the Bishop of Fréjus-Toulon to campaign against Mgr Thuc:
"Bishop Barthe said however that he had the best relations with him (Thuc)." (LETTER TO FAITHFUL PRIESTS, 1982, p. 2)

How should we then judge the Barbara case? Every Catholic who thinks according to logic can find the answer themselves!

(1) We prayed for the authentic original purpose of the gathering.
Note from trans.: undoubtedly so that the chair of Peter is freed from impostors, so that Rome is no longer the Great Babylon!

Persto: Keep in mind that these words by Dr. Heller were written and published in 1982 at the time of these events, and thus reflect an accurate picture of what was going on at the time.