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Author Topic: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc  (Read 260494 times)

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #735 on: August 15, 2026, 02:17:46 PM »
Uhm, duh ... there's plenty of "coherent" reason, namely, distinguishing between those that Archbishop Thuc consecrated directly.  Otherwise you'd have to attribute, what? ... a hundred thousand to Cardinal Rebiba?

+Thuc consecreated the 3 at Palmar
+Thuc consecrated Bishop Guerard des Laurier
+Thuc consecrated +Carmona and +Zamora
+Thuc conditionally consecrated +Laborie
+Thuc (may have) conditionally consecrated +Kozik/+Fernandez

I believe the +Kozik/+Fernandez one is also highly suspect.

That's it, and the rest are almost certainly just fraudulent claims.

And so what if he had personally consecrated 400?  That would have nothing to do with whether or not they are valid bishops.

But you types like to deploy the old tactic of slinging handfuls of shit against the wall to see how much would stick, where you blend your shit stew in a pot, making it difficult to distinguish the individual ingredients, and then hurl away.

Ok , well at least you're smart enough not to deny reality.

400 is ridiculous. Anyone can see that.

Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #736 on: August 15, 2026, 03:19:42 PM »
Comparing TGK's Numbers With the Boyle List:

Palmarian Church  Clemente Domínguez y Gómez  192 
Boyle list: Total= 225      TGK 192 vs Boyle 225

Sedevacantist  Moisés Carmona, Adolfo Zamora  ~35 
Boyle list: Carmon 6, Zamora 0.  Additional lineage: 7.  Total= 13.  TGK 35  vs Boyle 13

Sedeprivationist  Guérard des Lauriers  ~25 

Boyle list: 3.  Additional lineage: 10.  Total 13.    TGK 25 vs Boyle 13

Independent:  Jean Laborie  ~80–100+ 
Boyle list: 0.    TGK 80-100+ vs Boyle 0


Independent:  Christian Datessen  ~50–70+ 
Boyle list: Datessen consecrated 2.  Additional lineage: 25. Total: 27.    TGK 50-70+  vs  Boyle's 27


Other Independent  Kozik, Fernandez, et al.  ~30
Boyle list: Kozik 1, Fernandez 0.    TGK 30  vs  Boyle 1

TOTAL ESTIMATE by TGK:    ~412 – 452+ 
                              vs  Boyle:      279

The total is 279 according to the Boyle list - not 400+


Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #737 on: August 16, 2026, 08:27:28 AM »
The total is 279 according to the Boyle list - not 400+
The result of taking a close look at the Boyle list of consecrations reveals that:
225 were from the Palmarian's
And the remaining 54 were : 26 by des Lauriers and Carmona, and 27 by Datessen, 1 by Kozik.




Offline Persto

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Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #738 on: August 16, 2026, 09:08:05 AM »
http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html

Here is the list of the 15 Consecrations (Correction: 16) on the Boyle List:

The Consecrations for the Palmarians:

1)  01/11/1976 Clemente Ferdinand Dominguez Gómez (b in 1946; still living).
Ordained a priest for the Carmelite Order of the Holy Face on 01/01/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
He formed in 1978 the Holy Palmarian Church. He has been, since August 1978, Pope Gregory XVII of the Holy Palmarian Church. A SPANIARD

2)  01/11/1976 Manuel Isidoro Maria Alonso Corral (b. in 19xx; still living).
Ordained a priest for the Carmelite Order of the Holy Face on 01/01/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at xxxxx, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
Bishop Alonso Corral became a Cardinal and the Secretary of State for the Holy Palmarian Church. A SPANIARD


3)  01/11/1976 Camilo Leandro Estevez Puga de Maside (b. in 19xx; d. in 1999).
Ordained a Roman Catholic priest on 01/01/19xx at xxxx, Galicia, Spain, by Msgr. xxxxx, Roman Catholic Bishop of xxxx.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. A SPANIARD


4)  01/11/1976 Michael Thomas xxxxx Donnelly (b. in 19xx; d. in 1982).
Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Congregation of xxxxx on 01/01/19xx at xxxx, Ireland, by Msgr. xxxxx, Roman Catholic Bishop of xxxx.  Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. AN IRISHMAN.  Bp Donnelly never consecrated anyone.  He was only a part of the Palmarian movement for a few months. He left, considering his and the other first consecrations to be "wrong."


5)  01/11/1976 Francis Bernard Fulgencio Sandler (b. in 19xx; still living).
Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Order of Saint Benedict on 01/01/1958 at xxxx, USA, by Msgr. xxxxx, Roman Catholic Bishop of xxxx.
Consecrated a bishop on 01/11/1976 at Palmar de Troya, Spain, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA


The Consecrations for the Old Catholics:

6)  07/10/1976 P. E. M. Labat d'Arnoux (b. in 19xx; still living) - This is but a reported consecration by Msgr. Thuc. It may never have occurred.  Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of xxxxx.  Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 02108/1976 at xxxxx, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.  He resides at Seignelay, France.

7)  02/08/1977 Jean Laborie (b. in 1919; d. in 1996).  Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of xxxxx.
Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 02/08/1977 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.  He had already been consecrated a bishop on 10/02/1966 at xxxxx by Jean Pierre Danyel, a bishop of the Sainte Église Celtique. Later he was consecrated sub conditione a bishop on 08/20/1968 at xxxxx by Louis Jean Stanislaus Canivet, a bishop known as "Patriarch Aloysius Basilius III" of the Patriarchate Orthodoxe de l'Europe Latine.  He was a bishop for the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle.


8)  03/19/1977 Claude Nanta de Torrini (b. in 19xx; still living). - This is but a reported consecration by Magr. Thuc. It may never have occurred.

9)  10/19/1978 Michel Fernandez (b. in 19xx; still living). - This is but a reported consecration by Magr. Thuc. It may never have occurred.
Ordained a priest on 06/xx/1974 at xxxxx by Jean Laborie, a bishop of the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle. Ordained sub conditione a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by André Maurice Alexandre Enos, a bishop of the xxxxx. Ordained again sub conditione a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church.  Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Isadoro Maria Alonzo Corral ("Cardinal Isidoro"), a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church.  From 1978 to 19xx he was a bishop for the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle. He has been retired since xx/xx/19xx.


10)  10/19/1978 Roger Jean-Marie Kozik (b. in 19xx; still living).
e-mail address: FNDUSA@aol.com  Ordained a priest on 06/xx/1974 at xxxxx by Jean Laborie, a bishop of the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle. Ordained sub conditione a priest on xxxxx at xxxxx by Bishop André Maurice Alexandre Enos of the xxxxx. Ordained again sub conditione a priest on 05/xx/ at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church.  Consecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Isidoro Maria Alonzo Corral ("Cardinal Isidoro"), a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church.


The Consecrations for the Sedevacantists:

11)  05/07/1981 Michel Louis Guérard des Lauriers (b. in 1898; d. in 1988).  Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Order of Preachers on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by Msgr. xxxxx, Bishop of xxxxx.  Consecrated a bishop for the Latin-Rite Catholic Church on 05/07/1981 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.  He was a Bishop for the Latin-Rite Catholic Church, 1981-1988.
He resided at Etiolles, France.  He has since 19xx been a bishop for the Église Catholique Latine Traditionelle and for Fraternité Notre Dame.
He resides at Le Fréchou, France.


12)  10/17/1981 Moisés Carmona-Rivera (b. in 1912; d. in 1991).  Ordained a Roman Catholic priest on 11/xx/1939 at xxxxx by Msgr. Leopoldo Diaz Escudero, Bishop of xxxxx.  Consecrated a bishop on 10/17/1981 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.  He served as a bishop in Acapulco, Mexico, for the Union Católico Trento, 1981-1991.  Click here for a Letter from Bp. Carmona-Rivera explaining his position.  He resided at Acapulco, Mexico.

13)  10/17/1981 Adolfo Zamora Hernandez (b. in 1910; d. in 1987).  Ordained a Roman Catholic priest for the Congregation of the Fathers of Mercy, on 12/23/1939 at xxxxx by Msgr. Pedro Vera y Zuris, Bishop of xxxxx.  Consecrated a bishop on 10/17/1981 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.  He was a bishop in Acapulco, Mexico, for the Union Católico Trento, 1982-1987.  Click here for a lengthy letter by Bp. Zamora explaining the circuмstances of his becoming a bishop.

The Final Consecrations:

14)  04/18/1982 Luigi Boni (b. in 19xx; d. in 1993).
- This is but a reported consecration by Msgr. Thuc. It may never have occurred.
Ordained a priest on xx/xx/1951 at Rome, Italy, by Msgr. _____, Roman Catholic bishop of xxxxx.  Consecrated a bishop on 04/18/1982 at Loano, Italy, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.  He resided at xxxxx.


15)  04/18/1982 Jean Gérard de la Passion Antoine Laurent Charles Roux (b. in 1951; still living).
e-mail address: MARIE-REINE2@wanadoo.fr  Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxx by _____ Girard, a bishop of xxxx.
Allegedly consecrated a bishop on 04/18/1982 at Loano, Italy, by Msgr. Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia.
The truth of Bp Roux's ordination(s) and consecration(s) is hard to ascertain: Bp Roux resides at Chaillac, France. There were 3 websites critical of his claim- but they have all since disappeared. 

16)  09/25/1982 Christian Marie Datessen (b. in 1934; still living).  Ordained a priest on xx/xx/19xx at xxxxx by xxxxx, a bishop of xxxxx.
onsecrated a bishop, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, France, by Msgr. Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Isadoro Maria Alonzo Corral ("Cardinal Isidoro"), a bishop of the Holy Palmarian Church. Pierre Martin, Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia. He had already been consecrated a bishop on 09/10/1981 at xxxxx by André Maurice Alexandre Enos, a bishop of the Old Holy Catholic Church [Vilatte and Mathew lineages]. "Mgr Datessen et la 'Fraternité Notre Dame de Bethléem'"  He has since 198x been a bishop-abbot for the Union des Petites Églises Catholiques, as well as the head of Priory of St. Joseph of the Fraternity of Our Lady of Bethehem.  He resides at Castelsarrasin, France.


Are They All Legit?
1) - 5)  Palmerian's, verified with Photographic proof, 1976
6)  Labat d'Arnoux- no proof exists that this occurred

7)  Jean Laborie,  a photo exists of this sub conditione consecration, on 02/08/1977 at Toulon
8)  Claude Nanta de Torrini, no proof exists that this occurred
9)  Fernandez, no proof exists that this occurred
10)  Kozik, sub conditione, on 10/19/1978 at Toulon, but no photo or docuмentation
11)  Guerard des Lauriers, verified with witnesses and photos, 1981
12)  Carmona,  Verified with witnesses and photos, 1981
13)  Zamora,    "                      "                  "        "
14)  Luigi Bono,
Fraudulent- allegedly took place on 4-18-82 in Italy, when Abp. Thuc was residing in Germany living             with Dr. Heller who testifies that it was fraud.
15)  Roux, Fraudulent- allegedly took place also on 4-18-82 in Italy, Abp. Thuc exonerated because he was in Germany.
16)  Dattessen, Previously he had been consecrated a bishop on 05/xx/1977 by Manuel Alonzo Corral a Palermian bishop.
 
Since 2 of the reported consecrations of Abp. Thuc on the Boyle list are verifiably fraudulent, the total number becomes 14- instead of 16, and 3 of those 14 are doubtful.

Re: Autobiography of Archbishop Thuc
« Reply #739 on: August 16, 2026, 10:20:11 AM »
Ok , well at least you're smart enough not to deny reality.

400 is ridiculous. Anyone can see that.

Shut your mouth you psyops troll.