Author Topic: Attending SSPX Mass: Need Input  (Read 6582 times)

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Offline PetrusPrimus

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Attending SSPX Mass: Need Input
« on: October 08, 2009, 01:17:09 PM »
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  • Hello All,

    I've recently been thinking about the prospects of attending an SSPX Mass. It seems I am familiar with the arguments and have recently been enlightened about the many priests who use the "Una Cum" argument as to their cultish tendencies (ie. it is used to manipulate the faithful to prevent them from frequenting other churches).

    After reading the good Franciscan Father's rebuke of Bshp Dolan on the "Una Cum" question which repudiated his assertion that we are unable to go to a Mass where a false Pope or even non-Catholic is mentioned in the Canon, I have been more open-minded about the question.

    So, is there something else I should consider? It seems an explicit declaration by Rome is needed to say that a certain person is excommunicated or not Catholic. If the priest is giving explicit heresy from the pulpit, I can understand avoiding that occasion.  I am sure SSPXrs can understand that by my being a sedevacantist, I believe in all of the teachings of the Holy See. I'm sure they would affirm the same. Perhaps what I need is their reconciling their beliefs about Benedict being a heretic with the infallibility of the Holy See, and the belief that the head of the Church must be a Catholic?

    Any input?

    Offline Belloc

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    Attending SSPX Mass: Need Input
    « Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 01:23:15 PM »
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  • far as I know, you can go....though SV is not too popular in most SSPX circles, though hhave been told been some here there are closet SV in SSPX....may want to go to confession and talk to priest there or some other time about these issues.....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Attending SSPX Mass: Need Input
    « Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 01:33:12 PM »
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  • I would be inclined to call/write a learned priest or three.

    I have the numbers/emails of several who might be able to help you.

    Call/email/text me if you would like their contact info.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Attending SSPX Mass: Need Input
    « Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 01:36:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Belloc
    far as I know, you can go....though SV is not too popular in most SSPX circles, though hhave been told been some here there are closet SV in SSPX....may want to go to confession and talk to priest there or some other time about these issues.....


    It is not advisable to bring this up in confession in certain chapels.

    With all cults, remember: 'necessity is the mother of invention".

    Defining one's Faith solely in terms of "I am a Sede Vacantist" as opposed to believing "I am a Catholic" can be helpful.


    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 01:38:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: Belloc
    far as I know, you can go....though SV is not too popular in most SSPX circles, though hhave been told been some here there are closet SV in SSPX....may want to go to confession and talk to priest there or some other time about these issues.....


    It is not advisable to bring this up in confession in certain chapels.

    With all cults, remember: 'necessity is the mother of invention".

    Defining one's Faith solely in terms of "I am a Sede Vacantist" as opposed to believing "I am a Catholic" can be helpful.



    Good points made.....if SSPX chapel in area, maybe a sit-down meeting would be helpful prior to joining, etc....my parents did that about 26 yrs ago when, after a particualr breaking point, 1/2 our Church voted with their feet and went to the other RCC in town (one actually closer to my house)..remeber that well......they interviewed pastor at length.....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline SJB

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    Attending SSPX Mass: Need Input
    « Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 02:10:20 PM »
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  • You must follow your conscience on this one. Inform yourself the best you can and then decide. Nobody can bind you here even though some will try; and that includes both SV's and SSPX.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline CM

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    Attending SSPX Mass: Need Input
    « Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 03:48:26 PM »
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  • Would you kneel down with Ratzinger and pray the Rosary with him?  Why or why not?

    And if you would not, then why on earth would you go to a meetinghouse that wrongly recognizes him as the HEAD of the Catholic Church on earth?

    Go to Mass una cum Benedicto=go to hell una cum Benedicto.  How could it happen any other way?

    What concord hath Christ with Belial?

    Can you partake at the table of the Lord AND the table of devils?

    Offline Caminus

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    « Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 03:49:59 PM »
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  • Behold, the LOGIC of your error.


    Offline CM

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    « Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 03:54:24 PM »
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  • How philosophically penetrating, Caminus.  Will you spout poetry next?

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 06:04:46 PM »
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  • I would go (after making sure the Priest(s) there have been validly ordained in the true write by a validly consecrated Bishop, assuming their no SV Mass within a reasonable distance from you.

    I would not bring up your SV position to the Priest.

    First (generally speaking) he will try to brainwash you into thinking that not only is SV false but that you will be putting your soul in peril by holding that belief, secondly, they will kick you out (generally speaking) if you are too public about your belief on the issue.

    I would also support them minimally at most giving what should be given to the CMRI, Father Stepanich, Father Vaillancourt or some other SV apsotolate.  I would not give to Dolan or Cekeda though.

    Good question.  

    May God bless you!!!
    John
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline PetrusPrimus

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    « Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 07:52:54 PM »
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  • CM,

    I understand your argument, but I am also aware that the nature of many heresies is that they go *beyond* clear Catholic teaching.

    I am aware (it seems to me from Trochu), for example, that St Jean Vianney did not prohibit the faithful at his church from frequenting chapels of those priests flirting with heresy. The church has always seemed to have needed to make a definitive judgment before the faithful could excommunicate or officially call someone a heretic. Did, for example, those who shouted at Nestorius, "We have no bishop" stop going to Masses in union with him??? I believe the answer is "no". They awaited a judgment from Rome.

    -------------


    Quote from: Catholic Martyr
    Would you kneel down with Ratzinger and pray the Rosary with him?  Why or why not?

    And if you would not, then why on earth would you go to a meetinghouse that wrongly recognizes him as the HEAD of the Catholic Church on earth?

    Go to Mass una cum Benedicto=go to hell una cum Benedicto.  How could it happen any other way?

    What concord hath Christ with Belial?

    Can you partake at the table of the Lord AND the table of devils?


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 07:57:45 PM »
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  • Salus animarum suprema lex.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline CM

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    « Reply #12 on: October 08, 2009, 08:03:26 PM »
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  • Yeah right.  Because you should 'worship' with others to whom you must keep your faith a secret, because if they knew your convictions, they would anathematize you.  How much more honest can you get?

    No.

    Gladius is right, our salvation is the supreme law, and therefore we should never put it in peril by worshiping with those who are subverted.

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #13 on: October 08, 2009, 09:38:55 PM »
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  • Quote
    It seems an explicit declaration by Rome is needed to say that a certain person is excommunicated or not Catholic.


    Yes, that is what St. Thomas Aquinas said.  He said if your priest is heretical you should contact the bishop first, not just stop attending Mass.

    Here is the thing -- WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THE TIME OF ST. THOMAS AQUINAS.  This is an emergency of unprecedented proportions and no canon lawyer, no doctor of the Church ever anticipated anything like it.  The Church is not functioning and there are no "checks and balances," so to speak -- it is divided and atomized.

    If you are going to wait for Rome to pronounce on anything, you are going to have to involve yourself in all kinds of blasphemies while waiting.  You will also probably die in the midst of those blasphemies, because this is not going to end until God ends it Himself, through a chastisment or through some kind of miracle.  

    I believe the una cum Mass is a black Mass, a sacrilegious rite wherein Christ is tortured on the altar by the ones who call themselves His friends.  To me it is inexpressibly horrible and evil.  Some people feel differently -- that is their choice.  They tend to see Ratzinger as a "false papal claimant," as CMRI told me he was, where I see him more as a ghastly Anti-Christ and heresiarch.  There is absolutely no way that I would attend a Mass where his name is said in the Canon as "famulo tuo" and as Pope.  

    I'm not kidding -- I would rather have the flesh slowly stripped from my body than to go to an una cum Mass.  I stopped going to CMRI simply because they ALLOW the laity to go to SSPX.  They say that they don't recommend the una cum but that you can go in an emergency.  That makes no sense to me.  Either it is Catholic or it is not -- does an "emergency" somehow make a blasphemous mass acceptable to God?  

    I am not saying that one of the VII Popes is anti-Christ, but they are certainly figures of Anti-Christ, being heretics who sit in the temple and claim to be Pope.  You'd think no one had ever heard of such a thing before, considering how gentle and "charitable" they are towards a total apostate who shows himself as the leader of the Catholic world.  Where is the charity towards Our Lord?  Isn't He the one who is being offended?  

    ******

    As SJB said, no one can bind your conscience.  Each of us can only tell you the truth as he sees it.  I am in a strange position of being anti-una-cum and anti-NFP, like a Feeneyite, except that I believe in baptism of desire and I don't think limbo is a heresy either.  

    For me, at the moment, there is nowhere to go, so I am going to confess to a layman.  But I have hope that the sedevacantist clergy will see the ugly truth about NFP and about Pius XII.  Except for CMRI, the rest of them are already well on the way to cutting all ties with SSPX -- so progress HAS been made.

    As I was a new convert when posting here, my posts are often full of error, even unwitting heresy and rash judgment, all of which I renounce, and all my writings are best avoided -- MDLS

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #14 on: October 08, 2009, 09:46:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    I believe the una cum Mass is a black Mass...I would rather have the flesh slowly stripped from my body than to go to an una cum Mass.  I stopped going to CMRI simply because they ALLOW the laity to go to SSPX...


    Tell us how you really feel... :wink:

    The sentence in bold is a wee bit over the top, although, as you said and we both know, no one else can be your conscience.  Even the folks at sgg.org/cult (or MHT, et alii) would not tell you to not go to the CMRI, as if you could catch some kind of spiritual cooties.
    + Vincit veritas +

     

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