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Author Topic: Aristotle  (Read 4351 times)

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Offline kiwiboy

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Re: Aristotle
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2018, 04:13:23 PM »
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  • .
    We're talking about Aristotle, whose metaphysics were embraced by Christendom.  If you think that the Catholic Church erred in the middle ages by adopting his distinctions and using them in her solemn teaching, then you are in the wrong Church. 

    I don't agree with smedleys blanket rejection of Aristotle, but you must remember that the Church did not accept his errors either.

    There is some evidence to suggest he was an occultist. Smedley might show us more in that area.
    He also was pro globe earth, which was very unusual for his time.
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017


    Offline PG

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #31 on: May 30, 2018, 04:44:39 PM »
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  • It seems to me like aristotle philosophy runs into problems with christianity regarding metaphysics(universals and particulars, matter and form).  

    At the end of the world and the general resurrection, the bodies of the blessed will be resurrected, glorified, and reunited with their souls in the beatific vision one with God comparable to the time of adam and eve in the garden of eden where regarding grace and being there was no disorder in their bodies nor in their environment.  Disorder was introduced by sin, which in heaven there will be none of.  

    The bodies of the damned will also be resurrected and changed to reflect the consequences of sin to be tormented in hell for all eternity.  Therefore, is this temporary universal/matter really eternally universal/unchangeable?  Such theory(aristotles) has its doubts.  

    If our end(heaven or hell) is most important, which christianity argues it is, what becomes so useful about empirically stating the phenomenon of the present, especially when it is according to our faith only a temporal disorder subject to future change of eternal consequence?

    Form or essence which makes us particular in aristotle philosophy is in Christianity actually the thing that makes us not particular.  Our essence or form(our soul) in christianity is what makes us no different from the rest(mystical body) whose essence or form conforms to christianity.  Our form or essence is what unites Christians in the communion that we consider or importance.  

    At the end of the world, the universal of aristotle philosophy will undergo a change(sheep from the goats) that is arguably substantial, which aristotle argues only regards the form.  

    This aristotle system according to faith seems diametrically opposed to Christianity.  



    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #32 on: May 30, 2018, 05:18:45 PM »
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  • For goodness's sakes, Aquinas literally addresses ALL of this, using Aristotle. Go do some research and learning instead of just throwing out these vain objections in the hope that two thousand years of Christendom somehow managed to never consider what you've just said.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #33 on: May 30, 2018, 05:39:50 PM »
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  • Better yet, why doesn't PG or one of his partners demonstrate the existence of God from reason? They can't use any of Aristotle's ideas. 
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline PG

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #34 on: May 30, 2018, 06:27:36 PM »
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  • For goodness's sakes, Aquinas literally addresses ALL of this, using Aristotle. Go do some research and learning instead of just throwing out these vain objections in the hope that two thousand years of Christendom somehow managed to never consider what you've just said.
    And, apparently you cannot.  And, Aquinas makes only 800 years.  There is not only much reason to be suspicious of aristotle.  But, there is reason to be suspicious of aquinas as well.  Not only did he succuмb to a fate(curse) similar that of absalom, but he even commented on his own works as though they were dead(straw).  It does not look good for him.  Not only do I disagree with him in many morally significant areas(death penalty for heresy and accessory in usury), but others have as well.  On top of that, he is an absolute bore to read.  Is the only appropriate setting the university collective giest?
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline PG

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #35 on: May 30, 2018, 06:29:13 PM »
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  • Better yet, why doesn't PG or one of his partners demonstrate the existence of God from reason? They can't use any of Aristotle's ideas.
    And you wonder why deism has dominated church and state.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #36 on: May 30, 2018, 08:19:04 PM »
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  • Deism is what you get when you ditch Aristotle.  When you ditch Aristotle you ditch teleology by implication.  And then you get the "watchmaker" of the deists; the first domino-pusher-over.  It's all you need if your concept of the universe doesn't include final causality, and if you ditch Aristotle, your concept of the universe doesn't contain final causality.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #37 on: May 30, 2018, 09:07:08 PM »
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  • Saint Thomas referred to Aristotle as THE Philosopher.
    Only when he agreed with him. St. Thomas refers to Aristotle by name when he disagrees with him.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #38 on: May 30, 2018, 10:01:32 PM »
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  • If it is good enough for St. Thomas Aquinas, who was smarter than you or i, why do you have it out for Aristotle?
    .
    Smedley Butthead wouldn't be posting here AT ALL if he couldn't attempt to promote his pet gibberish of flat-earthism.
    Anyone who has anything to say against his false-god golden-calf Shangri-La dreamworld is instantly an enemy.
    That's the only thing worth living for, in his tiny flat world. 
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #39 on: May 30, 2018, 10:27:29 PM »
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  • Deism is what you get when you ditch Aristotle.  When you ditch Aristotle you ditch teleology by implication.  And then you get the "watchmaker" of the deists; the first domino-pusher-over.  It's all you need if your concept of the universe doesn't include final causality, and if you ditch Aristotle, your concept of the universe doesn't contain final causality.
    .
    Okay, now you've done it. . . . You've gone RIGHT OVER PG's head.   
                                            
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #40 on: May 30, 2018, 10:27:48 PM »
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  • And, apparently you cannot.  And, Aquinas makes only 800 years.  There is not only much reason to be suspicious of aristotle.  But, there is reason to be suspicious of aquinas as well.  Not only did he succuмb to a fate(curse) similar that of absalom, but he even commented on his own works as though they were dead(straw).  It does not look good for him.  Not only do I disagree with him in many morally significant areas(death penalty for heresy and accessory in usury), but others have as well.  On top of that, he is an absolute bore to read.  Is the only appropriate setting the university collective giest?

    You really need to be banned, viciously bad-mouthing first St. Louis de Montfort and now St. Thomas Aquinas.  You won't even call them saints.  I'm wondering if you're even Catholic and not just some raving heretic.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #41 on: May 30, 2018, 10:29:16 PM »
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  • Motorede - THE philosopher in my opinion is John the Baptist.  "Make straight the way of the Lord".  

    :facepalm:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #42 on: May 30, 2018, 10:32:10 PM »
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  • man who names and even tames them is the author of their form.

    :facepalm:

    You've effectively articulated nominalism.

    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #43 on: May 30, 2018, 10:59:47 PM »
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  • I studied Protestant Guy (PG) and Smelly Butler today.  I discovered a number of problems with them.  I think they may be responsible for the rise of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ beginning in the 18th Century.  

    Offline PG

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    Re: Aristotle
    « Reply #44 on: May 30, 2018, 11:57:16 PM »
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  • You really need to be banned, viciously bad-mouthing first St. Louis de Montfort and now St. Thomas Aquinas.  You won't even call them saints.  I'm wondering if you're even Catholic and not just some raving heretic.
    You don't criticize me for rejecting thomist morality regarding the death penalty for heresy or his advocating the reception of a usurious loan.  No, you criticize me for not placing an S and a T in front of his name.  Talk about cultus, which I do happen to agree carries the weight regarding canonization, just not in your favor.  What is stopping you from criticizing God for placing a tree branch in front of thomas' forehead on his way to end the east west schism?  O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! Would God I had died for thee, O Absalom, my son, my son!  I am not the first person to dislike scholasticism.  And, I won't be the last.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15