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Author Topic: Are traditional priests not lawful according to Trent?  (Read 6331 times)

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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Are traditional priests not lawful according to Trent?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2023, 09:18:20 AM »
There is much confusion, and many Catholics (of good will?) get it wrong, but I gotta say the error that bothers me the most is when people forget we are not in ordinary times.

It's about as crazy as waking up in the world of Mad Max and pretending everything is normal: imagine someone waking up literally in the movie Mad Max and asking one of the characters where one can pay his property taxes, or asking for directions to the nearest Starbucks. That's exactly how I feel when Trads or "Trads" talk as if there's no epic, unprecedented Crisis in the Church which clearly justifies extraordinary measures.

It's like "Hello? Are you blind? Do you not see anything amiss with the current situation in the Church?" Those people need to be introduced to Novus Ordo Watch. Not Trads, who already know there's a Crisis, but these blind idiots are the proper audience for that website.

Imagine 2 people on a stereotypical desert island (with one palm tree in the middle) and one of them wants to be baptized. Imagine if the guy made a fuss because they don't have holy water available -- just sea water. Imagine if the other guy said "Yeah, you're right. The rules clearly state holy water must be used, unless you're in a state of emergency. So we'll have to scratch THAT option!"
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Are traditional priests not lawful according to Trent?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2023, 10:28:57 AM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on November 23, 2023, 12:20:19 AM
So does this mean traditional clergy are not lawful? What are the implications of this? And has this been addressed by traditional groups?
Yes, the home alone contingent.  Stay far, far away unless you choose to live the rest of your life without the Sacraments (contrasted with those who have no choice).
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Are traditional priests not lawful according to Trent?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2023, 11:02:48 AM »
Quote from: Matthew on November 23, 2023, 09:18:20 AM
There is much confusion, and many Catholics (of good will?) get it wrong, but I gotta say the error that bothers me the most is when people forget we are not in ordinary times.

It's about as crazy as waking up in the world of Mad Max and pretending everything is normal: imagine someone waking up literally in the movie Mad Max and asking one of the characters where one can pay his property taxes, or asking for directions to the nearest Starbucks. That's exactly how I feel when Trads or "Trads" talk as if there's no epic, unprecedented Crisis in the Church which clearly justifies extraordinary measures.

It's like "Hello? Are you blind? Do you not see anything amiss with the current situation in the Church?" Those people need to be introduced to Novus Ordo Watch. Not Trads, who already know there's a Crisis, but these blind idiots are the proper audience for that website.

Imagine 2 people on a stereotypical desert island (with one palm tree in the middle) and one of them wants to be baptized. Imagine if the guy made a fuss because they don't have holy water available -- just sea water. Imagine if the other guy said "Yeah, you're right. The rules clearly state holy water must be used, unless you're in a state of emergency. So we'll have to scratch THAT option!"

Well put.  I like the Mad Max analogy.  St. Athanasius and a couple other orthodox bishops were going around consecrating Catholic bishops for areas whose official See had been usurped by the Arians ... without any papal approval.

Canon Law is intended to maintain order and in normal times it does exactly that.  Imagine priests going off and starting independent chapels in the United States in the 1940s, and the chaos that would result.  But when we have the entire putative hierarchy thoroughly infested with various heresies, it's a different animal altogether, similar to Arian times when 97%-99% of the episcopal sees had been taken over by Arians.  I'm sure there were independent priests floating around offering Mass without the approval of the local Arian bishop.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Are traditional priests not lawful according to Trent?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2023, 06:28:12 AM »
Quote from: Matthew on November 23, 2023, 09:18:20 AM
There is much confusion, and many Catholics (of good will?) get it wrong, but I gotta say the error that bothers me the most is when people forget we are not in ordinary times.

It's about as crazy as waking up in the world of Mad Max and pretending everything is normal: imagine someone waking up literally in the movie Mad Max and asking one of the characters where one can pay his property taxes, or asking for directions to the nearest Starbucks. That's exactly how I feel when Trads or "Trads" talk as if there's no epic, unprecedented Crisis in the Church which clearly justifies extraordinary measures.

It's like "Hello? Are you blind? Do you not see anything amiss with the current situation in the Church?" Those people need to be introduced to Novus Ordo Watch. Not Trads, who already know there's a Crisis, but these blind idiots are the proper audience for that website.

Imagine 2 people on a stereotypical desert island (with one palm tree in the middle) and one of them wants to be baptized. Imagine if the guy made a fuss because they don't have holy water available -- just sea water. Imagine if the other guy said "Yeah, you're right. The rules clearly state holy water must be used, unless you're in a state of emergency. So we'll have to scratch THAT option!"
Great post.  I agree 100%.

As for your bolded comment, Mario has often had to state/clarify in his combox that this is its primary purpose (although without the reference to "blind idiots"...lol).  Every once in a while, former NO posters come forward and acknowledge that NOW has helped to awaken them/explain what has been troubling them.  However, it is definitely few and far between.

I really think that there is a very small percentage of Novus Ordites left who even want to find answers.  They are either quite happy with their Novus Ordo religion, service, priest, and pope or they choose to turn a blind eye despite any unhappiness or concerns. A close friend of mine comes to mind.  I think my mother has a better shot at requesting baptism before she dies than this NO friend has in coming to the True Faith before she dies.
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