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Author Topic: Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II  (Read 4430 times)

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Offline Matto

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Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
« on: January 30, 2014, 08:04:02 PM »
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    • Can you name a single Bishop alive today who was appointed by a true Pope who rejects Vatican II and the Novus Ordo? Obviously the traditional bishops do not count because none of them were appointed by a true Pope.
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    Offline Ambrose

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 08:20:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matto
    Can you name a single Bishop alive today who was appointed by a true Pope who rejects Vatican II and the Novus Ordo? Obviously the traditional bishops do not count because none of them were appointed by a true Pope.


    The question does not establish who the bishops are who have the Faith.  Adherence to Vatican II is not proof, in and of itself of heresy.  The use of the Novus Ordo Missae is also not, by itself a definitive proof of heresy.

    But, to answer your question, I am aware of none.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 08:47:46 PM »
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    • Why do you ask, Matto?  What's the underlying issue?
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    Offline Matto

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 09:18:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Why do you ask, Matto?  What's the underlying issue?

    Because I have heard from multiple people that there has to be at least one bishop appointed by the Pope who is not a heretic, otherwise the Church has failed. Father Cekada is on the other side of the argument and believes that it is not necessary as long as the independent bishops are around to keep the Church alive. But John Lane and others say that a faithful bishop appointed by the Pope is necessary and if there were none, the Church has failed.
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    Offline Ambrose

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 01:14:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Why do you ask, Matto?  What's the underlying issue?

    Because I have heard from multiple people that there has to be at least one bishop appointed by the Pope who is not a heretic, otherwise the Church has failed. Father Cekada is on the other side of the argument and believes that it is not necessary as long as the independent bishops are around to keep the Church alive. But John Lane and others say that a faithful bishop appointed by the Pope is necessary and if there were none, the Church has failed.


    John Lane is correct and did a magnificent job of defending this dogma of the Faith against Fr. Cekada on Ignis Ardens.  It is a shame that IA is down, I wish the transcript of this great defence of the Catholic Faith was still available.

    Many were shocked by Fr. Cekada revelation of his position.  To this day, as far as I am aware Fr. Cekada has not attempted to clarify any potential misunderstanding or retract his words.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 01:34:04 PM »
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    • So where is this bishop?
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    Offline Matto

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 01:47:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont
    So where is this bishop?

    There used to be one, de Castro Mayer in Brazil; but he died a while ago (and his successor compromised). Now, if there is one, it isn't common knowledge. But many sedevacantists say there must be at least one.
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    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 01:54:22 PM »
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    • What do they mean by failed?
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    Offline songbird

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 02:02:49 PM »
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    • If New Order Mess is used, they are in disobedience of Quo Promum.  That is schismatic is it not?  Church can not teach error.
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    Offline Ambrose

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 02:32:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont
    So where is this bishop?


    He (or they) is mixed into a crowd, so not easy to individually identify, but we know how to find the crowd, which can then lead to finding the bishop (s).
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    Offline Binechi

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 02:57:59 PM »
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    • Don t understand the question....

    Is it not true that a Bishop can make another Bishop ??

    CMRI , SSPV, SSPX, have Bishops who were made from Bishops Who were consecrated by PPXII....

    Educate me please ...

    Are we saying that  these groups had not the authority to make Bishops in these times ??
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    Offline Ambrose

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 03:11:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Director
    Don t understand the question....

    Is it not true that a Bishop can make another Bishop ??

    CMRI , SSPV, SSPX, have Bishops who were made from Bishops Who were consecrated by PPXII....

    Educate me please ...

    Are we saying that  these groups had not the authority to make Bishops in these times ??


    None of the traditional bishops are successors of the apostles.  They have orders but not formal succession.  

    This article from the CE explains this teaching very well, found HERE

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    Offline Centroamerica

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 04:02:33 PM »
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    • I had seemed to remember there were a few bishops or cardinals not too long ago who said that Vatican 2 not obligatory or that it was not part of the magisterium etc, but when I went looking for the articles I couldn't find them.
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    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 04:58:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: Director
    Don t understand the question....

    Is it not true that a Bishop can make another Bishop ??

    CMRI , SSPV, SSPX, have Bishops who were made from Bishops Who were consecrated by PPXII....

    Educate me please ...

    Are we saying that  these groups had not the authority to make Bishops in these times ??


    None of the traditional bishops are successors of the apostles.  They have orders but not formal succession.  

    This article from the CE explains this teaching very well, found HERE


    Maybe this is why SSPX is aggresively trying to reconcile with Rome.  Wouldn't  prelature give them succession?
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    Offline Mama ChaCha

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    Are there any Bishops who reject Vatican II
    « Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 05:14:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: holysoulsacademy
    Quote from: Ambrose
    Quote from: Director
    Don t understand the question....

    Is it not true that a Bishop can make another Bishop ??

    CMRI , SSPV, SSPX, have Bishops who were made from Bishops Who were consecrated by PPXII....

    Educate me please ...

    Are we saying that  these groups had not the authority to make Bishops in these times ??


    None of the traditional bishops are successors of the apostles.  They have orders but not formal succession.  

    This article from the CE explains this teaching very well, found HERE


    Maybe this is why SSPX is aggresively trying to reconcile with Rome.  Wouldn't  prelature give them succession?


    I presume so, provided they don't get shuffled up like fssp and end up under various diocesan bishops without a prelature.
    I still think it's a mistake to reconcile with Rome, even only practically because they haven't chucked out Vatican II.
     :pray: :pray: :pray:
    We can keep praying they will throw it out though.
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