Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Are Protestants Christians?  (Read 1929 times)

2 Members and 133 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online HeidtXtreme

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Reputation: +40/-42
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are Protestants Christians?
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 08:43:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • "To be Christian one must be Roman. One must recognize the oneness of Christ's Church that is governed by one successor of the Prince of the Apostles who is the Bishop of Rome, Christ's Vicar on earth" 

    ~ Pope Pius XII, Allocution to the Irish pilgrims of October 8, 1957

    Logged

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1057
    • Reputation: +793/-101
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 08:47:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 08:31:54 PM
    As good of a writer Mueller was (his Holy Rosary and Scapulars book is a personal favorite), he erred with his position on Protestants. Pope Leo XIII called Protestants our "separated brethren" and the Pope's position carries infinitely more weight than Mueller's position. 
    I cannot find an instance of him using that term..but even if a Pope did that does not mean they are Christian

    You cannot be Christian if you reject Christ's Doctrine, and therefore reject Christ
    Logged
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline IndultCat

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 295
    • Reputation: +203/-110
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 08:55:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: WorldsAway on Yesterday at 08:47:47 PM
    I cannot find an instance of him using that term..but even if a Pope did that does not mean they are Christian

    You cannot be Christian if you reject Christ's Doctrine
    Read Pope Leo XIII's 1898 encyclical "Caritatis Studium" addressed to the Protestants of Scotland because he mentions it there. Thus, since a legitimate "Vicar of Christ" calls Protestants "our separated brethren" then they are Christians. A Vicar of Christ's position carries infinitely more weight than Fr. Mueller or The Fatima Center.

    BTW, The Fatima Center lies when it says "no Pope has ever consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary" when in fact Pope Pius XII did so in 1952. Like it or not, that's what happened.
    Logged

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1057
    • Reputation: +793/-101
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 09:06:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 08:55:01 PM
    Read Pope Leo XIII's 1898 encyclical "Caritatis Studium" addressed to the Protestants of Scotland because he mentions it there. Thus, since a legitimate "Vicar of Christ" calls Protestants "our separated brethren" then they are Christians. A Vicar of Christ's position carries infinitely more weight than Fr. Mueller or The Fatima Center.

    Ok, found it. He says "separated brethren". What he doesn't say is "Christian". He says they are deprived of the "fullness of the Christian faith"..so not Christian, because the "Christian faith" must be professed in its entirety.

    The word "Christian" is used three times in the entire docuмent. Once as previously mentioned, and then two times specifically referring to Catholics


    Do Protestants reject Christ?

    Logged
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1057
    • Reputation: +793/-101
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 09:14:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Some other relevant quotes from Caritatis Studium:


    Quote
    We are constantly imploring them to agree at last to restore together with Us the communion of the one and the same faith

    ...

    The terrible storm which swept over the Church in the sixteenth century, deprived the vast majority of the Scottish people, as well as many other peoples of Europe, of that Catholic Faith which they had gloriously held for over one thousand years. 

    ...

    But since then a great change has come to pass, the ancient faith having been extinguished in the minds of the vast majority of your countrymen. Are we to suppose that it will never be restored?

    ...

    The truth of what We have just stated is proven by what has actually taken place since, of all the sects, deprived as they are of the Catholic Faith 

    Clearly, Pope Leo XIII did not believe that Protestants have the Christian faith. 
    Logged
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline IndultCat

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 295
    • Reputation: +203/-110
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 09:17:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: WorldsAway on Yesterday at 09:06:50 PM
    Ok, found it. He says "separated brethren". What he doesn't say is "Christian". He says they are deprived of the "fullness of the Christian faith"..so not Christian, because the "Christian faith" must be professed in its entirety.

    The word "Christian" is used three times in the entire docuмent. Once as previously mentioned, and then two times specifically referring to Catholics

    Do Protestants reject Christ?
    Pope Leo XIII's "Our separated brethren" refers to separated brethren in Christ. He would not have used the term "brethren" had he just meant "fellow human beings." And no, Protestants do not reject Christ. Protestantism is a branch of Christianity (1 of 3 branches...2 of which are erroneous and withered and 1 that is not). Protestants, like the Eastern Orthodox, do not reject Christ but hold many erroneous positions concerning His Church while simultaneously believing in the doctrines of the Trinity, Incarnation and early Creeds.
    Logged

    Offline Bonafidecat

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 12
    • Reputation: +6/-2
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 09:18:14 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 08:34:57 PM
    Sorry but Pope Leo XIII considered Protestants Christians and referred to them as our "separated brethren" and a Pope's position on such a matter carries infinitely more weight than any member of The Fatima Center.
    “So long as the member was on the body, it lived; separated, it lost its life. Thus the man, so long as he lives on the body of the [Catholic] Church, he is a Christian; separated from her, he becomes a heretic” (Encyclical Satis cognitum of June 29, 1896).
    Please, Don’t Call Protestants Christians by Marian T Horvat
    Logged
    "Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the End of Time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood!" (St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori) 


    "There is only one Christian faith, that is: Catholic." (St. Bridget of Sweden)

    Offline IndultCat

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 295
    • Reputation: +203/-110
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 09:24:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: WorldsAway on Yesterday at 09:14:13 PM
    Clearly, Pope Leo XIII did not believe that Protestants have the Christian faith.
    Incorrect. He never referred to Jews or Muslims as "separated brethren" but only the Protestants and Eastern Orthodox because both Protestants and Eastern Orthodox, despite holding many erroneous positions, still adhere to the doctrines of the Trinity, Incarnation and early Creeds. Thus, they are STILL our "brothers" in Christ, albeit "separated brothers" while neither Jews nor Muslims are our "brothers" in Christ.
    Logged

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1057
    • Reputation: +793/-101
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 09:28:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 09:17:39 PM
    Pope Leo XIII's "Our separated brethren" refers to separated brethren in Christ. 
    Separated in Christ? Can you elaborate?


    Quote
    He would not have used the term "brethren" had he just meant "fellow human beings."
     Well, he's writing a letter imploring the Protestants to enter the Church.."separated brethren" has a more welcoming tone than something like "anti-Christs" 

    Quote
    And no, Protestants do not reject Christ. Protestantism is a branch of Christianity
    (1 of 3 branches...2 of which are erroneous and withered and 1 that is not). Protestants, like the Eastern Orthodox, do not reject Christ but have take many erroneous positions concerning His Church while simultaneously believing in the Trinity, Incarnation and early Creeds.

    Did the "Christ" Protestants believe in institute seven sacraments, the papacy, the Catholic Church, and does he have a perpetual virgin free-from-sin as his mother? 

     
    Logged
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1057
    • Reputation: +793/-101
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 09:32:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 09:24:01 PM
    Incorrect. He never referred to Jews or Muslims as "separated brethren" but only the Protestants and Eastern Orthodox because both Protestants and Eastern Orthodox, despite holding many erroneous positions, still adhere to the doctrines of the Trinity, Incarnation and early Creeds. Thus, they are STILL our "brothers" in Christ, albeit "separated brothers" while neither Jews nor Muslims are our "brothers" in Christ.
    Okay, you're savoring of heresy at this point. I posted several quotes from Pope Leo XIII teaching that Protestants do not have the Christian faith...I can easily find many more from other popes teaching the same thing. If you reject a single article of the Faith then you reject the faith in its entirety. This is basic catechism 101.

    Logged
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Michelle

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 493
    • Reputation: +551/-66
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 09:45:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 08:34:57 PM
    Sorry but Pope Leo XIII considered Protestants Christians and referred to them as our "separated brethren" and a Pope's position on such a matter carries infinitely more weight than any member of The Fatima Center.
    "Separated brothers" is not synonymous with Christian.  Protestants, heretics and schismatics follow false christs. They make God into their own image and likeness according to each individual interpretation.   Our Lord warned us to beware of these false christs that will come and lead many to hell.  These false christs will multiply and eventually culminate with the antichrist. 
    Logged

    Offline IndultCat

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 295
    • Reputation: +203/-110
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 10:07:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Michelle on Yesterday at 09:45:33 PM
    "Separated brothers" is not synonymous with Christian.  Protestants, heretics and schismatics follow false christs.
    According to Pope Leo XIII, that term IS synonymous with Christian. He never used that term toward Jews, Muslims or any other religious groups. Do you know why? That's because Protestants and Eastern Orthodox still adhere to the Doctrines of The Trinity, Incarnation and early Creeds while Jews, Muslims etc. do not. Even the "heretical" and "schismatic" Eastern Orthodox have "Valid" sacraments.

    And many Traditional Catholics consider other Traditional Catholics heretics and schismatics if they hold the Sedevacante or R&R positions. So which side are you on??

    Logged

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12968
    • Reputation: +8191/-2542
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 10:16:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Michelle on Yesterday at 09:45:33 PM
    "Separated brothers" is not synonymous with Christian. 
    Correct.  The two terms means different things. 
    Logged

    Offline IndultCat

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 295
    • Reputation: +203/-110
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 10:17:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: WorldsAway on Yesterday at 09:32:53 PM
    Okay, you're savoring of heresy at this point. If you reject a single article of the Faith then you reject the faith in its entirety. This is basic catechism 101.
    With this logic, Traditional Catholics who adhere to either the Sedevacantist or R&R positions can be considered guilty of "heresy" by other Traditional Catholics. There's a reason why Pope Leo XIII referred to ONLY Protestants and Eastern Orthodox as "separated brethren" and NEVER Jews, Muslims or any other religious group. That's because Protestants and Eastern Orthodox still adhere to doctrines such as The Trinity, Incarnation and early Creeds whereas all of the other religious grops do not and never did.

    That's one of the reasons why the "heretical" and "schismatic" Eastern Orthodox still have "Valid" sacraments. So tell me how could and why would sacraments offered by those who reject many articles of faith (and thus, according to you, reject the entire faith) STILL be Valid" sacraments? Answer: because they are still our (separated) brethren in Christ.
    Logged

    Offline Michelle

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 493
    • Reputation: +551/-66
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Are Protestants Christians?
    « Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 10:18:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: IndultCat on Yesterday at 10:07:47 PM
    According to Pope Leo XIII, that term IS synonymous with Christian. He never used that term toward Jews, Muslims or any other religious groups. Do you know why? That's because Protestants and Eastern Orthodox still adhere to the Doctrines of The Trinity, Incarnation and early Creeds while Jews, Muslims etc. do not. Even the "heretical" and "schismatic" Eastern Orthodox have "Valid" sacraments.

    And many Traditional Catholics consider other Traditional Catholics heretics and schismatics if they hold the Sedevacante or R&R positions. So which side are you on??
    The personal opinions of individual Traditional Catholics has no doctrinal weight.  No one has the authority to label someone a heretic because of differing opinions concerning the chaos in the church.
    The Church has spoken concerning heretics and schismatics.  They are outside the Church and do not follow Christ and are not Christians.  Only followers of Christ united in faith are Christian.
    Logged
    Pages: 1 [2] 3
    « previous next »