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Author Topic: Are novus ordo confessions valid?  (Read 3749 times)

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Offline soulguard

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Are novus ordo confessions valid?
« on: January 12, 2014, 05:19:47 AM »
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    • Discuss.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #1 on: January 12, 2014, 07:43:29 AM »
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    • Are you sure you want it discussed?  Normally when you ask for something you violently disagree with those who choose to answer you.  You have given that exact reaction to this very topic twice already.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 08:41:02 AM »
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    • Doubtful.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline soulguard

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 08:46:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Are you sure you want it discussed?  Normally when you ask for something you violently disagree with those who choose to answer you.  You have given that exact reaction to this very topic twice already.


    And the difference between my "violent" (?) reaction and yours is...?

    I seek information. You on the other hand set yourself up as a professional theologican who thinks he knows all about everything church like. Hate to break it to you, but you have no authority to speak on anything, lest of all to provide advice to me on this matter. All you have is your opinion, and that is all it is, an OPINION.
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    Offline soulguard

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #4 on: January 12, 2014, 08:50:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Doubtful.  


    If an act of contrition is enough to place someone into a state of grace, then why would it not have the same effect if made before a person who was ordained?

    I thought the SSPX considered the new rites as valid? or do you all reject everything from the post conciliar popes? Because if you do, then the church was reduced to a remnant and most clergy are imposters wearing a priest costume.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #5 on: January 12, 2014, 08:52:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Are you sure you want it discussed?  Normally when you ask for something you violently disagree with those who choose to answer you.  You have given that exact reaction to this very topic twice already.


    And the difference between my "violent" (?) reaction and yours is...?

    I seek information. You on the other hand set yourself up as a professional theologican who thinks he knows all about everything church like. Hate to break it to you, but you have no authority to speak on anything, lest of all to provide advice to me on this matter. All you have is your opinion, and that is all it is, an OPINION.


    You're 100% correct.  So why did you start the thread?  Do you think a theologian who enjoys the Church's approbation will appear on the thread to answer your question?  

    Anyways, I agree with 2vermont.  N.O. confessions are doubtful.  If a priest with undoubtedly valid orders hears the confession, I think it's valid.  The new rite of confession is butchered but it's essential form is not, which is ultimately what matters for validity (beyond matter and intention, of course).
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #6 on: January 12, 2014, 08:56:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Doubtful.  


    If an act of contrition is enough to place someone into a state of grace, then why would it not have the same effect if made before a person who was ordained?

    I thought the SSPX considered the new rites as valid? or do you all reject everything from the post conciliar popes? Because if you do, then the church was reduced to a remnant and most clergy are imposters wearing a priest costume.


    A perfect act of contrition has the same effect as absolution in the confessional, but the whole point of confession is that perfect contrition is both difficult to come by, and it also can never be presumed.  Perfect contrition is being sorry for your sins because of the offense levied against the Infinitely Perfect Creator, rather than fear for your own soul and the fires of Hell.

    The SSPX in recent years appears to have become much less apprehensive about the new rites of ordination (another example of a clear break from the holy Archbishop) but there are definitely priests in the SSPX who have their doubts.  And yes, the Church has been reduced to a remnant and there are many doubtful priests.  
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline soulguard

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #7 on: January 12, 2014, 08:57:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Are you sure you want it discussed?  Normally when you ask for something you violently disagree with those who choose to answer you.  You have given that exact reaction to this very topic twice already.


    And the difference between my "violent" (?) reaction and yours is...?

    I seek information. You on the other hand set yourself up as a professional theologican who thinks he knows all about everything church like. Hate to break it to you, but you have no authority to speak on anything, lest of all to provide advice to me on this matter. All you have is your opinion, and that is all it is, an OPINION.


    You're 100% correct.  So why did you start the thread?  Do you think a theologian who enjoys the Church's approbation will appear on the thread to answer your question?  

    Anyways, I agree with 2vermont.  N.O. confessions are doubtful.  If a priest with undoubtedly valid orders hears the confession, I think it's valid.  The new rite of confession is butchered but it's essential form is not, which is ultimately what matters for validity (beyond matter and intention, of course).


    Yeah well all I posted in the OP was "Discuss".
    So discuss. I want info. This is CathINFO after all.
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    Offline soulguard

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #8 on: January 12, 2014, 08:58:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Doubtful.  


    If an act of contrition is enough to place someone into a state of grace, then why would it not have the same effect if made before a person who was ordained?

    I thought the SSPX considered the new rites as valid? or do you all reject everything from the post conciliar popes? Because if you do, then the church was reduced to a remnant and most clergy are imposters wearing a priest costume.


    A perfect act of contrition has the same effect as absolution in the confessional, but the whole point of confession is that perfect contrition is both difficult to come by, and it also can never be presumed.  Perfect contrition is being sorry for your sins because of the offense levied against the Infinitely Perfect Creator, rather than fear for your own soul and the fires of Hell.

    The SSPX in recent years appears to have become much less apprehensive about the new rites of ordination (another example of a clear break from the holy Archbishop) but there are definitely priests in the SSPX who have their doubts.  And yes, the Church has been reduced to a remnant and there are many doubtful priests.  


    Yet Francis is still your pope right?
    Hypocrisy anyone?
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #9 on: January 12, 2014, 09:00:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Doubtful.  


    If an act of contrition is enough to place someone into a state of grace, then why would it not have the same effect if made before a person who was ordained?

    I thought the SSPX considered the new rites as valid? or do you all reject everything from the post conciliar popes? Because if you do, then the church was reduced to a remnant and most clergy are imposters wearing a priest costume.


    I lean SV and although not all SV's think alike on this matter, I have positive doubts about the validity of the new rite of episcopal consecrations.  As a result, I have positive doubt about the validity of many newly ordained priests.

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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #10 on: January 12, 2014, 09:10:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: soulguard
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    Doubtful.  


    If an act of contrition is enough to place someone into a state of grace, then why would it not have the same effect if made before a person who was ordained?

    I thought the SSPX considered the new rites as valid? or do you all reject everything from the post conciliar popes? Because if you do, then the church was reduced to a remnant and most clergy are imposters wearing a priest costume.


    A perfect act of contrition has the same effect as absolution in the confessional, but the whole point of confession is that perfect contrition is both difficult to come by, and it also can never be presumed.  Perfect contrition is being sorry for your sins because of the offense levied against the Infinitely Perfect Creator, rather than fear for your own soul and the fires of Hell.

    The SSPX in recent years appears to have become much less apprehensive about the new rites of ordination (another example of a clear break from the holy Archbishop) but there are definitely priests in the SSPX who have their doubts.  And yes, the Church has been reduced to a remnant and there are many doubtful priests.  


    Yet Francis is still your pope right?
    Hypocrisy anyone?


    ???

    Who said Francis is my pope?

    Do you want to discuss your thread or not?

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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #11 on: January 12, 2014, 12:12:26 PM »
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    • yeah, soulguard, I think you're mixing up posters here.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ambrose

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #12 on: January 12, 2014, 04:26:50 PM »
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    • There is no such thing as Novus Ordo confessions,  it is either confession to a catholic priest or it is not.  

    If you go to confession:  only go to priests ordained prior to 1970 who profess the Catholic Faith to the best of your knowledge.  

    Or to priests ordained after 70 in the SSPX, CMRI or independent who profess the Catholic Faith.  
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    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #13 on: January 13, 2014, 11:18:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ambrose
    There is no such thing as Novus Ordo confessions,  it is either confession to a catholic priest or it is not.  

    If you go to confession:  only go to priests ordained prior to 1970 who profess the Catholic Faith to the best of your knowledge.  

    Or to priests ordained after 70 in the SSPX, CMRI or independent who profess the Catholic Faith.  


    Too many strange things with confessions in the NO and that includes Indult and FSSP.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Are novus ordo confessions valid?
    « Reply #14 on: January 13, 2014, 12:09:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: soulguard
    Discuss.


    They are valid if ministered by a valid Priest.  The essential valid form is "I absolve you of your sins, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.  Amen."

    "Ghost" can be replaced with "Spirit" and the formula is still valid of course.  

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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church
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