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Author Topic: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism  (Read 7203 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2024, 06:27:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Simeon on June 20, 2024, 01:50:41 PM

    That statement is worse than problematic. It shows that Vigano thinks the novus ordo is the Church.



    Another problem statement. We are not dealing with a "Bergoglian church," as if the Roncalli, Montini, Wojtyla, and Ratzinger "churches" were the Roman Catholic Church. It's all one big giant satanic whore.

    Does Vigano include the Vatican II antipopes in his list of the "Popes of history?"

    Vigano's words are slippery and slimy. Bad deal!

    False.  He's regularly denounced the entire Vatican II establishment from Roncalli on down.  He simply hasn't committed to the notion that the Holy See has been vacant since the death of Pius XII ... though he's hinted that it's possible.  You evidently haven't followed his writing very closely.  He's referring specifically to the Bergoglian Church because that's what he's currently being threatened with excommunication from.

    To call him "slippery and slimy" is slanderous.  You need to retract that absurd statement.  Someone not having made up his mind yet about the legitimacy of Roncalli et al. is not to be "slippery and slimy."  Your statements are shameful.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #31 on: June 20, 2024, 06:31:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Simeon on June 20, 2024, 06:03:13 PM
    He creates quite a large taxonomic vacuum here. He identifies (Category 1) the true Roman Catholic hierarchy that existed before Vatican II, and (Category 2) the "enemy" Bergoglio, whose crimes offend the Church. Between "until Vatican II" and "Bergoglio," there were five intervening impostors and 60+ years of all-out apostasy, under the direct leadership and control of these same impostors.

    By the clear meaning of his terms, Vigano excludes the novus ordo pontiffs from his Categories 1 and 2. Omission is exclusion in this context.

    So how should they be classified? Or do we simply make believe that Bergoglio and Vatican II are the bad guys - Vatican II in a nebulous way, and Bergoglio in a particular and unique way - while all that exists between them on the timeline is untouchable?

    This is very slippery talk. It has a great potency for deception and falsity.

    Garbage, as per my previous post.  He simply hasn't made up his mind about Roncalli - Ratzinger.  This has absolutely nothing to do with his attempting to be slippery.  We've had a huge crowd of R&R Trads, including SSPX, that have upheld the legitimacy of all these Antipopes, so to think that a +Vigano would go from being a high-ranking Novus Ordite to post-Pius XII SV in months is quite a stretch, especially when you denounce him for not having done so.  Within a short time, he's come father than the SSPX did and farther than the Resistance have.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #32 on: June 20, 2024, 06:54:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on June 20, 2024, 06:06:23 PM
    There was a trad Cat bishop who had a side hustle of selling insurance.  I think he recently died.  There was a Baptist pastor who drove tractor trailer during the week.

    Many Protestant ministers work secular jobs and preach on Sundays (and other days of the week, many such congregations have midweek and other services).  Smaller and poorer congregations couldn't possibly donate enough to support a full-time minister who does nothing else.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #33 on: June 20, 2024, 06:56:36 PM »
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    • https://www.youtube.com/live/KIxIJyyp2vg?si=veOMYm6tUp2CRQze


    Taylor Marshall is spinning that Vigano's charges are because of the McCarrick report by the Archbishop.

    It seems everyone has forgotten to mention what Archbishop Vigano said last week about Bergoglio.....

    "I replied to him: « Holy Father, I don’t know if you know Cardinal McCarrick, but if you ask the Congregation for Bishops, there is a dossier this big. He corrupted generations of seminarians...»
    Bergoglio remained impassive and completely changed the subject.

    His reaction is not surprising. Bergoglio himself committed the same abuses when he was Master of Novices of the Society of Jesus in Argentina, as personally confided to me by one of his former novices."
    ^^^^^^^^^^

    This^
    Must be the reason they brought these charges against him now.
    They can't let this narrative continue and had to shut it down.
    I don't think it had anything to do with McCarrick. We've been hearing about all of this filth since Boston and Cardinal Law and no aggressive action was taken against any whistleblowers


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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #34 on: June 20, 2024, 07:03:24 PM »
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    • Quote
    Garbage, as per my previous post.  He simply hasn't made up his mind about Roncalli - Ratzinger.  This has absolutely nothing to do with his attempting to be slippery.  We've had a huge crowd of R&R Trads, including SSPX, that have upheld the legitimacy of all these Antipopes, so to think that a +Vigano would go from being a high-ranking Novus Ordite to post-Pius XII SV in months is quite a stretch, especially when you denounce him for not having done so.  Within a short time, he's come father than the SSPX did and farther than the Resistance have.
    Agree 100%, Ladislaus.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #35 on: June 20, 2024, 07:11:37 PM »
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    • Quote
    If he submits, and plays along, it's a bad sign. A really bad sign. For this one action will speak far louder than any of his multifarious words. It will prove him for once and for all.
    :confused::confused::confused:  What are you talking about?  Whether he's sedevacantist or not has nothing to do with the accusation from new-rome.

    Even if he believes that new-rome is in a sedeprivationist state (i.e. still has natural, temporal authority...which is the most likely scenario), then submitting to their natural/legal authority is wise (and an obligation).  But any spiritual/theological authority they "impose" is null and void because it will be based on V2/new-age/humanistic errors.

    Thus, as St Thomas Moore did, he submitted to the (nefarious) authority of King Henry VIII, when the King called him (legitimately) to a court hearing.  But St Thomas did not submit (and refuted) the King's authority to compel him to accept the heresy of Anglicanism.

    The difference between authority/summon (presence) and the authority/accept (heresy/facts), is quite distinct in the law.  Your error is you fail to distinguish.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #36 on: June 20, 2024, 07:11:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on June 20, 2024, 06:56:36 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/live/KIxIJyyp2vg?si=veOMYm6tUp2CRQze


    Taylor Marshall is spinning that Vigano's charges are because of the McCarrick report by the Archbishop.

    It seems everyone has forgotten to mention what Archbishop Vigano said last week about Bergoglio.....

    "I replied to him: « Holy Father, I don’t know if you know Cardinal McCarrick, but if you ask the Congregation for Bishops, there is a dossier this big. He corrupted generations of seminarians...»
    Bergoglio remained impassive and completely changed the subject.

    His reaction is not surprising. Bergoglio himself committed the same abuses when he was Master of Novices of the Society of Jesus in Argentina, as personally confided to me by one of his former novices."
    ^^^^^^^^^^

    This^
    Must be the reason they brought these charges against him now.
    They can't let this narrative continue and had to shut it down.
    I don't think it had anything to do with McCarrick. We've been hearing about all of this filth since Boston and Cardinal Law and no aggressive action was taken against any whistleblowers


    You may be right. It does seem more than just a coincidence that the Vatican is going after +Vigano shortly after he makes that statement about 
    Bergolio and the abuse of seminarians in Argentina. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #37 on: June 20, 2024, 07:29:21 PM »
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    • Quote
    Taylor Marshall is spinning that Vigano's charges are because of the McCarrick report by the Archbishop.
    The reason "why" is irrelevant.  What matters is the "what" of the charges.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #38 on: June 20, 2024, 09:22:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on June 20, 2024, 12:33:34 PM
    …Barfly Bergolio…
    This is the first I have heard this charge. Is the sodomite heretic enabler also an alcoholic?
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    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #39 on: June 21, 2024, 02:35:51 AM »
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    • This Ann Barnhardt article has plenty of information that could explain why Bergolio doesn't ever visit Argentina https://www.barnhardt.biz/2018/09/12/nuclear-bombshell-argentinian-whistleblower-interview-bergoglio-allows-the-catholic-elite-in-rome-to-have-access-to-gustavo-veras-child-sex-slaves/ 

    Natasha Jaitt died a year after these interviews.  
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #40 on: June 21, 2024, 04:28:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 20, 2024, 06:31:22 PM
    Garbage, as per my previous post.  He simply hasn't made up his mind about Roncalli - Ratzinger.  This has absolutely nothing to do with his attempting to be slippery.  We've had a huge crowd of R&R Trads, including SSPX, that have upheld the legitimacy of all these Antipopes, so to think that a +Vigano would go from being a high-ranking Novus Ordite to post-Pius XII SV in months is quite a stretch, especially when you denounce him for not having done so.  Within a short time, he's come father than the SSPX did and farther than the Resistance have.

    I agree. After this last statement, he seems like the real deal to me. When he rejects Montini through Ratzinger, I’ll be completely on the Vigano train. It wouldn’t shock me if he already has rejected them, but is being careful not to alienate the R&R crowd at this time.
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    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #41 on: June 21, 2024, 04:37:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 20, 2024, 06:31:22 PM
    Garbage, as per my previous post.  He simply hasn't made up his mind about Roncalli - Ratzinger.  This has absolutely nothing to do with his attempting to be slippery.  We've had a huge crowd of R&R Trads, including SSPX, that have upheld the legitimacy of all these Antipopes, so to think that a +Vigano would go from being a high-ranking Novus Ordite to post-Pius XII SV in months is quite a stretch, especially when you denounce him for not having done so.  Within a short time, he's come father than the SSPX did and farther than the Resistance have.

    I know that this is a hot-button topic, and that people on this board are not unanimous. I know there's no easier way to get flamed by "the management" than to criticize Vigano. 

    I don't come here to contend with my fellow Catholics. I come to chat with them. Therefore I will say one more thing, and then let it rest. You may have the last words, as in "nonsense" and "garbage." 

    Not only Vigano, but every single Catholic upon the earth, has a grave moral obligation, under pain of sin, to reject Vatican II - it's false religion and its false hierarchy. You, Lad, would be the first to assert this, or else you would contradict practically every one of your thousands of posts, and you'd be a colossal gaslighter. No one, I say no one, is exempted from this grave obligation. 

    Things are coming to a head with Vigano. He's had sixty plus years (and a bird's eye view) to weigh the evidence, and several years to weigh it in public. Furthermore he purports to be a hierarch himself, which means he is presumed to have deep theological knowledge. And yet you tell me he has not yet made up his mind. I tell you he's out of time. He's in the public eye, and he has been commanded by a false authority to give testimony of himself. It's now or never. He must stand unequivocally for the whole and integral truth, or be discounted. Period. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #42 on: June 21, 2024, 05:50:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Simeon on June 21, 2024, 04:37:49 AM
    I know that this is a hot-button topic, and that people on this board are not unanimous. I know there's no easier way to get flamed by "the management" than to criticize Vigano.

    I don't come here to contend with my fellow Catholics. I come to chat with them. Therefore I will say one more thing, and then let it rest. You may have the last words, as in "nonsense" and "garbage."

    ...

    Things are coming to a head with Vigano. He's had sixty plus years (and a bird's eye view) to weigh the evidence, and several years to weigh it in public. Furthermore he purports to be a hierarch himself, which means he is presumed to have deep theological knowledge. And yet you tell me he has not yet made up his mind. I tell you he's out of time. He's in the public eye, and he has been commanded by a false authority to give testimony of himself. It's now or never. He must stand unequivocally for the whole and integral truth, or be discounted. Period.
    True indeed, especially the bolded. This is why I detest when people like yourself feel they need to keep their mouths shut on this topic because they don't take the party line.

    Having said that, generally speaking, I am impressed with his latest statement and perhaps the "excommunication" will move him to be explicit in his beliefs against Bergoglio and all of the Vatican II "popes".  As in literally stating that the See is vacant and has been since 1958.  So far, that has not happened.  Like you said, a lot of words are not necessary to communicate this.  In addition, I'm still waiting for him to publicly confirm his re-consecration.

    I agree that now is the time to let it all out so-to-speak. Bergoglio has given him his greatest opportunity.

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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #43 on: June 21, 2024, 06:06:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on June 21, 2024, 05:50:15 AM

    Having said that, generally speaking, I am impressed with his latest statement and perhaps the "excommunication" will move him to be explicit in his beliefs against Bergoglio and all of the Vatican II "popes".  As in literally stating that the See is vacant and has been since 1958.  So far, that has not happened.  Like you said, a lot of words are not necessary to communicate this.  In addition, I'm still waiting for him to publicly confirm his re-consecration.

    I agree that now is the time to let it all out so-to-speak. Bergoglio has given him his greatest opportunity.


    Yes Vermont, good post. 
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano Accused by the Vatican of the Crime of Schism
    « Reply #44 on: June 21, 2024, 06:45:24 AM »
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    • +Vigano has never "held back" for political reasons and doesn't need this as a reason to say "what he really thinks".  It wasn't all that long ago that he called Bergoglio a "servant of Satan".

    If he hasn't declared all the popes after Pius XII illegitimate, it's only because he hasn't made up his mind about them yet or else come up with an explanation for it.  These accusations of his being "slippery" are out of line.  He says what he believes and is not deterred by human respect, but he simply hasn't fully made up his mind yet about Roncalli - Ratzinger.  He has denounced them and their "teaching", etc. ... but hasn't come to a final conclusion yet regarding their legitimacy.

    For a long time he was dropping hints that that he was questioning Bergoglio's legitimacy, but then took him a while to come up with the vitium consensus explanation.

    +Vigano doesn't like to "shoot from the hip" and just "spout off".  He carefully thinks through everything before making a public statement, and he just hasn't finished thinking through the problem of Roncalli - Ratzinger.
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