serpkerp - If you don't want bias, go to each side's sources, read the originals, and then assess their arguments.  Get the sacred and the profane by the sspv and refer to/obtain the sources(Fr. Barbara for example).

The pro thuc trads like mario derkson of thucbishops.com.  So, use his work and do likewise.  

In my opinion, the sspv has a legitimate argument.  I do not condemn them at all for erecting walls to protect their operation.  We currently(in the practical order) have no pope.  So, accusations of "schism" by thuc trads is untrue; it is a false argument.  

Fr. Jenkins did a good video about the thuc consecrations on youtube titled - "what catholics believe" - thuc consecrations - wcbohio channel.

As for mario derkson's work, in my opinion, he does not comprehend the crux of the sspv's position/sacred and the profane(or he would acknowledge it, and have that be the focal point).  Derkson arrives at a notorious fact far too easily where the sspv argues that one cannot/should not assume such.  It goes right over his head.  

I was wondering if anyone could give me links, or explain to me the history of Archbishop Thuc, and the consecrations (both the good and more interestingly the bad) which would not be the biased SSPV stories, or the opposite the denial of the reality of his role in creating the palmarian "church".  I have no intent of degrading his grace, I just want to know the truth.

Be very careful about those with an agenda who attack Archbishop Thuc.  The Archbishop like many during the confusion of the 1970's made some mistakes, but all who knew him say the same:  he was a good Catholic, a good bishop, and one who loved the Catholic Faith.

Archbishop Thuc understood the crisis in the Church, and was the only member of the hierarchy to formally declare the See vacant.  His actions of consecrating bishops during this crisis has allowed countless Catholics access to the sacraments during our times, who would otherwise be spiritually starving.

I would urge you to read the article I posted in the library:

Tribute to Archbishop Thuc, Msgr. Guerard des Lauriers, O.P.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Tribute-to-Archbishop-Thuc

If you do not know who Msgr. Guerard des Lauriers is, he was a great pre-Vatican II theologian during the time of Pope Pius XII, you can learn a but about him here:  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerard_des_Lauriers

While I do not agree with his Sedeprivationism, he was a great theologian a learned man, and devout Catholic, and I know that he was more than capable of making a judgment about Archbishop Thuc.

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: SerpKerp

I was wondering if anyone could give me links, or explain to me the history of Archbishop Thuc, and the consecrations (both the good and more interestingly the bad) which would not be the biased SSPV stories, or the opposite the denial of the reality of his role in creating the palmarian "church".  I have no intent of degrading his grace, I just want to know the truth.

Be very careful about those with an agenda who attack Archbishop Thuc.  The Archbishop like many during the confusion of the 1970's made some mistakes, but all who knew him say the same:  he was a good Catholic, a good bishop, and one who loved the Catholic Faith.

Archbishop Thuc understood the crisis in the Church, and was the only member of the hierarchy to formally declare the See vacant.  His actions of consecrating bishops during this crisis has allowed countless Catholics access to the sacraments during our times, who would otherwise be spiritually starving.

I would urge you to read the article I posted in the library:

Tribute to Archbishop Thuc, Msgr. Guerard des Lauriers, O.P.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Tribute-to-Archbishop-Thuc

If you do not know who Msgr. Guerard des Lauriers is, he was a great pre-Vatican II theologian during the time of Pope Pius XII, you can learn a but about him here:  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerard_des_Lauriers

While I do not agree with his Sedeprivationism, he was a great theologian a learned man, and devout Catholic, and I know that he was more than capable of making a judgment about Archbishop Thuc.

First you mentioned that he was the first to declare the seat vacant.  Then later you say you disagree with his sedeprivationism.  Was he a sedevacantist or not?

Archbishop Thuc declared the seat vacant in 1982 and was the only member of hierarchy to do so.  Archbishop Thuc declared:

Declaration of Archbishop Ngo-Dinh-Thuc

How does the Catholic Church appear today as we look at it? In Rome, John Paul II reigns as “Pope,” surrounded by the body of Cardinals and of many bishops and prelates. Outside of Rome, the Catholic Church seems to be flourishing, along with its bishops and priests. The number of Catholics is great. Daily the Mass is celebrated in so many churches, and on Sundays the churches are full of many faithful who come to hear the Mass and receive Holy Communion.

But in the sight of God, how does today’s Church appear? Are the Masses — both the daily ones and those at which people assist on Sundays — pleasing to God? By no means, because that Mass is the same for Catholics as it is for Protestants — therefore it is displeasing to God and invalid. The only Mass that pleases God is the Mass of St. Pius V, which is offered by few priests and bishops, among whom I count myself.

Therefore, to the extent that I can, I will open seminaries for educating candidates for that priesthood which is pleasing to God.

Besides this “Mass,” which does not please God, there are many other things that God rejects: for example, changes in the ordination of priests, the consecration of bishops, and in the sacraments of Confirmation and of Extreme Unction.

Moreover, the “priests” now hold to:

    1) modernism;
    2) false ecuмenism
    3) the adoration [or cult] of man;
    4) the freedom to embrace any religion whatsoever;
    5) the unwillingness to condemn heresies and to expel the heretics.

Therefore, in so far as I am a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church, I judge that the Chair of the Roman Catholic Church is vacant; and it behooves me, as bishop, to do all that is needed so that the Roman Catholic Church will endure in its mission for the salvation of souls.

February 25, 1982
Munich
+Peter Martin Ngo-dinh-Thuc
Archbishop

Bishop Guerard des Lauriers was really the father of sedeprivationism. He was a good theologian and pre-Vatican II priest, but in order to explain this crisis he adopted a bizarre system to try to make sense of it, rather than stay with the clear and consistent teaching of the Code of Canon Law and St. Robert Bellarmine and other theologians.  

In my opinion, the sspv has a legitimate argument. I do not condemn them at all for erecting walls to protect their operation. We currently(in the practical order) have no pope.  So, accusations of "schism" by thuc trads is untrue; it is a false argument.  

Where does anyone get the idea that secret societies are compatible with the practice of the Roman Catholic Church?

Look it up-- The Church Militant is made up of good Catholics and bad Catholics.

Cults like the sspv do not have the authority to decide who gets to exist inside their
operation  Their clergy would have the duty to correct errors against the Faith, to guide the flock to salvation.  

Yet this operation works in secret to decide who gets inside their walls, and then people excuse the insanity by explaining that there is no pope.

This is a kooky Waco mentality which is not at all Catholic.    The highest law of the Catholic Church is the salvation of souls.  Not erecting walls so that only special insiders get to be saved.

illyricuмsacrmum is a troll. I have responded to the lies that he spreads about Bp. kelly's consecration.  I have responded and pm'd him with the proof he is at the moment again denying(multiple witnesses)(with no response).  The entire ceremony was traditionally performed and docuмented.

I actually want to know what went down at  Palmar de Troya for real. Did +Thuc believe that Paul VI was really Bi-locating, and there was a imposter Paul VI.

For instance is anything in this article hold to any truth?
 http://www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Thuc_Consecrations.html