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Author Topic: Archbishop Lefebvre on Sedevacantism  (Read 34254 times)

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Archbishop Lefebvre on Sedevacantism
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2011, 05:51:40 PM »
Quote from: JohnGrey
Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

In-correct, actually John. ABL at one point almost took the sedevacantist path. He was very sympathetic towards sedes.


Sympathy for one has nothing to do with the validity of their opinion.  I have sympathy for Protestants, who desire in their hearts to please God, yet are unable to do so because of the heresies they espouse.  The paramount question in dealing with the Society's relationship to sedevacantism is thus: did Archbishop Lefebvre assent, interiorly and with supernatural faith, the sedevacantist position as being a historical fact?  If he did, then we must ask why he never taught thus and continued until his death to offer prayers to heretical usurpers as though they were legitimate claimants to the Holy See.




Well, it seems to me that an even more basic question would be, "Is sedevacantism true?"

Archbishop Lefebvre on Sedevacantism
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2011, 07:05:19 PM »
SpiritusSanctus said:
Quote
More than believing the Chair of Peter is empty is needed to change the state the Church and world are in.


That is true.  But the chair is still empty.  Just because recognizing it as a fact isn't going to change anything, doesn't mean it's not a fact.

You could say "More is needed to change Hollywood than better studio presidents."  And that's true, because to change Hollywood, you'd have to somehow stop it from being nearly entirely Jєωιѕн.  Just changing the studio presidents wouldn't change that.  But nevertheless, isn't it a fact that Hollywood studio presidents put out lousy, immoral movies?

In the same way, recognizing that Benedict isn't the Pope won't change the apostasy, blasphemy, heresy and just general lukewarmness of the masses.  But all of those things are somehow connected to having no Pope.  It's like God has allowed the people to deliver themselves to their tormentors.  

So yes, there are two major things that are necessary:  ( a ) For God to end the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, which we have been in, in my estimation, since roughly the end of World War I, and which is characterized by ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic democracies after the American model -- this will be surely be done via the Minor Chastisement and ( b ) For the world to finally recognize that the Vatican was taken over and that Vatican II was a sham.  

But these two things are connected.  The Chastisement is the shock that will snap people awake.  Some of them, anyway.  In the 20th century, the devil made people lazy and greedy with all of this fake money, that we are now beginning to realize never really existed, it was all playing with numbers, playing with debt.  When that illusion fades, when reality sets in, people will come back to God and the Church -- one hopes.  


Archbishop Lefebvre on Sedevacantism
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2011, 07:14:14 PM »
gladius_veritatis said:
Quote
No position as to the exact nature of the present problem is, or is even meant to be, a solution.  That is something that many overlook, plunging into heady discussions with all sorts of ideas distorted from the start.

"What, in fact, is the problem?" is a completely different question from "What is the solution to the present problem?"


That is a much more succinct version of what I was trying to say.

What you're saying, Spiritus, sounds like you're saying we should ignore ONE of the major problems of our time because acknowledging it won't have any effect.  Well, it may not change the world, which is in a mess for many other reasons besides the non-Popes, but for me it did have an effect -- I can separate myself from nests of heresy and error, and perhaps I can please God and show loyalty by doing so.

Archbishop Lefebvre on Sedevacantism
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2011, 01:04:45 AM »
How can Sede be true when we all know God is in control. Many popes throughout history are know to be in Hell according to some Saints. So God allows them to be the pope but miraclously we have pure teachings. Most popes didnt mess with the teachings of the Catholic Church. I just read in the Selected Writings of St. Teresa of Avila she one time went up for communion and there sitting on either side of the priest were two demons whose horns were wrapped around the priests throat. Well not sure how she managed to still receive our Lord but she did. Later our Lord wanted to show her the power of consecration regardless of the state of the priest. I would assume the same with popes. I completely recognize the pope dont agree with most things, but he is always speaking as man not as the Vicar of Christ x cathedra so they say. So he is bound by the laws of the church if he doesnt follow them he is still pope. A father who is the head of his family could be an alcholic, could be in mortal sin whatever but I assume he is still father he is still the head of his home. Im not well versed in my catholic faith but Im on the road to it (its such an old church u know) but my brain is one of simplicity so alot of my future answers will probably be more of a simple nature unless I happened to read it in the council of Trent Catechism!!!!    Annie

Archbishop Lefebvre on Sedevacantism
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2011, 01:10:19 AM »
There is no such thing as 'sede vacantism'.   :heretic: