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Author Topic: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano on Antipope Jorge Bergoglio  (Read 5688 times)

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Re: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano on Antipope Jorge Bergoglio
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2023, 09:00:45 AM »
1.

Yes, he doesn't want to alienate American conservatives because according to Vigano

all Trump supporters,

be they Catholic, Protestant, Jєωιѕн, etc.

are "Children of Light.”

According to this rationale, you should also reject the traditional Latin Mass as heretical ecuмenism, since it contains the Gloria, which bids “on earth, peace to men of good will,” many of whom will be non-Catholic.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano on Antipope Jorge Bergoglio
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2023, 11:13:21 AM »
According to this rationale, you should also reject the traditional Latin Mass as heretical ecuмenism, since it contains the Gloria, which bids “on earth, peace to men of good will,” many of whom will be non-Catholic.

There's a difference of course between being supernaturally right with God, i.e. a Catholic in the state of grace, and being naturally ordered toward God.  To say otherwise is almost akin to the condemned Jansenist proposition that outside the Church there's only sin and evil.  There can be natural goodness and virtue outside the Church, and there can be people at least trying to keep the natural law and intending to serve God.  While the latter does not suffice for salvation, it's also not in the same category as the evil Jews, Rothschilds, Globalists, etc. who are attempting to destroy humanity and to serve Satan.  St. Augustine's City of God was all about how there were ultimately only two basic tendencies or trajectories, either 1) for or toward God or 2) for or toward Satan (and thus against and away from God).  For him, people can be moving in one of these two directions, even if they're not at their final destination.  They may be tending toward God and toward the Church even if they haven't yet reached their final destination.  +Vigano was clearly alluding to City of God in using this term (it's where it comes from).


Re: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano on Antipope Jorge Bergoglio
« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2023, 11:17:14 AM »
There's a difference of course between being supernaturally right with God, i.e. a Catholic in the state of grace, and being naturally ordered toward God.  To say otherwise is almost akin to the condemned Jansenist proposition that outside the Church there's only sin and evil.  There can be natural goodness and virtue outside the Church, and there can be people at least trying to keep the natural law and intending to serve God.  While the latter does not suffice for salvation, it's also not in the same category as the evil Jєωs, Rothschilds, Globalists, etc. who are attempting to destroy humanity and to serve Satan.  St. Augustine's City of God was all about how there were ultimately only two basic tendencies or trajectories, either 1) for or toward God or 2) for or toward Satan (and thus against and away from God).  For him, people can be moving in one of these two directions, even if they're not at their final destination.  They may be tending toward God and toward the Church even if they haven't yet reached their final destination.  +Vigano was clearly alluding to City of God in using this term (it's where it comes from).

Perfectly stated.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano on Antipope Jorge Bergoglio
« Reply #58 on: July 05, 2023, 02:33:11 PM »
... aaand once more with the debunked "Sol Invictus" garbage.

Christians often appropriated various pagan symbols and Christianized them.  When the Roman Empire became Christian, it was common to portray Our Lord as the "Sol Invictus".  Here's a mosaic of Our Lord as "Sol Invictus" in a Christian tomb beneath St. Peter's basilica.



It's not unlike how the Christians converted pagan temples into churches, put crosses on top of pagan obselisks, and even when they appropriated the Christmas tree.  Our Lord was often symbolized by the sun in the early Church, and Masses were offered facing the sun at sunrise, representing the light of Christ entering the world.

+Vigano is not above reproach, but this nonsense muddies the waters, so that even if there's room for legitimate criticism, it gets lost in the noise.

So mote it be ... :laugh1:

Offline Meg

Re: Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano on Antipope Jorge Bergoglio
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2023, 03:08:44 PM »
... aaand once more with the debunked "Sol Invictus" garbage.

Christians often appropriated various pagan symbols and Christianized them.  When the Roman Empire became Christian, it was common to portray Our Lord as the "Sol Invictus".  Here's a mosaic of Our Lord as "Sol Invictus" in a Christian tomb beneath St. Peter's basilica.



It's not unlike how the Christians converted pagan temples into churches, put crosses on top of pagan obselisks, and even when they appropriated the Christmas tree.  Our Lord was often symbolized by the sun in the early Church, and Masses were offered facing the sun at sunrise, representing the light of Christ entering the world.

+Vigano is not above reproach, but this nonsense muddies the waters, so that even if there's room for legitimate criticism, it gets lost in the noise.

So mote it be ... :laugh1:

It is thought that the image above may be a representation of Our Lord as "Sol Invictus," but it isn't a given - it isn't known for sure.

And just because this description, "Sol Invictus" may have been used a long, long time ago, it doesn't mean that it's right and proper nowadays to use the phrase to refer to Our Lord. Why bring up a term that has been disused for so long, except by occultists?