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Author Topic: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?  (Read 1800 times)

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Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2021, 11:08:38 AM »
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XavierSem wrote: "Any shred of Christianity is better than blank worldliness". They have a partial Christianity that will always be incomplete in itself.
 
 Catholic Christianity is Complete Christianity, the full 100% Catholic and Apostolic Faith. But other Christians have valid Baptism etc.
 
 Every effort should be made to bring separated Christians back to the Catholic and Apostolic Church. They remain deprived of many gifts.

 

Orestes Brownson 1874:

"There can be no more fatal mistake than to soften, liberalize or latitudinize this terrible dogma, "Out of the Church there is no salvation...  If we wish to convert Protestants and infidels we must preach in all its rigor the naked dogma.  Give them the smallest peg or what appears so, not to you, but to them, the smallest peg on which to hang a hope of salvation without being in or actually reconciled to the Church by the sacrament of Penance, and all the arguments you can address to them to prove the necessity of being in the Church in order to be saved will have no more effect on them than rain on a duck's back."

Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2021, 11:51:54 AM »
Pax Vobis, I want America to be Catholic,
So said all the modernists and Vatican II popes for now 60+ years with their "updated for our times pastoral evangelization" methods of  softening, liberalizing, or latitudinizing the terrible dogma, "Out of the Church there is no salvation...

What was the result? 80%+ of Catholics left the Church, and as for conversions? Conversion to what? The Vatican II church is no different than Protestantism. Today the few real traditionalists have to work to convert the traditionalists in name only like XavierSem. That's an impossible job in and of itself. (P.S. - the truth is that only God converts, and all we can be are good examples in the way we dress and live. )


Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2021, 12:05:02 PM »
I'm in the hermeneutic of continuity camp as an Indult Traditionalist. I believe most of the affirmations of Vatican II, which are not infallible, can be interpreted in light of Tradition. In the case of the sentence you mention, take the Protestant minister who baptizes a baby. That baby dies baptized and goes to Heaven. So did Christ choose to use the Protestant minister in giving salvation to that baby? Yes, it seems He did.
Any individual can baptize.  A Jew can baptize.  A pagan can baptize.  And yet Christ does not use their "churches" as means of salvation.  To say He does is heresy.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2021, 05:00:33 PM »

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Pax Vobis, I want America to be Catholic, but if that is not immєdιαtely possible, at least let it be generically Christian, Christ-loving, Bible-respecting, proclaiming Jesus as King.
I applaud your idealism, but you don't know history, therefore your utopia is flawed.  America has ALREADY had the experiment of "christ loving" protestants everywhere, from the 1800s onward.  Protestants proclaiming "Christ is King" is as productive as the Jews proclaiming His Kingship on Palm Sunday.  It's all words and no action.  They claim they follow Christ, yet reject His Eucharist, His Pope, His Mother and even the natural law.  America had its height of religious fervor (both catholic and protestant) from the 1800s til early 1900s (when Our Lady of Fatima warned of WW1).  But such fervor waned, and due to sins, God allowed WW1 and WW2.  Then there was a short chance in the 50s to repent, post-WW2, but most of America then worshipped materialism and the "american dream", which ended in the chaotic, immoral, sɛҳuąƖ revolution of the 60s.  V2 and the new mass was the proverbial last straw, which broke America's immoral back and pushed us into paganism.
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The only answer now is pure, Catholicism.  Protestantism is a failed experiment, just like communism.  It leads to spiritual destruction and only those who are advancing OUT of it, can save their souls.
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I for one would not be satisfied with Jesus as King alone without also having Mary as Queen. But I will take Jesus as King over having a godless, materialistic, liberal secularistic, lawless society.
This has already been tried for centuries, since the 1600s.  Protestantism leads to nothing but materialism and individual spiritualism, and eventually, atheism, which we see all around us.  Where do you think all this atheism came from?  Bad catholics and bad protestants.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Any Shred of Protestantism is better than blank worldliness?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2021, 07:18:06 PM »
Xavier, let's also remember the major spiritual flaws of protestantism, all of which have contributed to V2 and our current social/religious chaos.
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1.  Protestants are not part of the Mystical Body of Christ and cannot help it, spiritually.
a.  They don't believe or pray to the "communion of the saints" so they deny the Church Triumphant.
b.  They don't believe or pray to the souls in purgatory, so they deny the Church Suffering.
c.  They don't believe or pray for the Church, so they deny the Church Militant.
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2.  Protestants deny Christ's true Kingship, therefore they worship a false Christ. 
a.  Protestants deny the Eucharist; they cannot pray to the true Christ.
b.  Protestants deny Christ's Mother and His Church; they cannot be his true followers.
c.  Protestants deny grace, the sacraments and the Mass; they cannot worship Christ as He wants and is deserved.
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3.  Protestants cannot actively (or properly) fight the Kingdom of Satan.
a.  Their "religion" is not supernatural at all; they only worship God on the natural level.
b.  They deny the necessity for any and all supernatural works; their only good deeds are natural charity to their neighbor.
c.  Thus, they are only capable of praying for natural things:  end to abortion, happy families, end of addictions, sins, etc.
d.  They cannot, in any way, truly fight satan or "the powers of darkness" on this earth, because their "religion's" purpose is purely natural.
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4.  Protestants contribute to wimpy Catholicism, by passively tempting Catholics to concentrate on natural goodness, or by the false notion of trying to please God through purely natural motives/means (i.e. non-catholic prayers for worldly desires).
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One could go on and on, detailing the vast list of protestant errors and how they multiply into even more vast spiritual problems.  Will some protestants eventually convert?  Yes, but due to God's grace and their good will, not because of their false "religion". 
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Protestantism is a scourge on humanity.  It creates divisions in society and leads to communism because
1) its errors lead to pride, each person being their own "interpretation" of scripture.
2) private interpretation leads to divisions, quarrels, and factions, a problem that will never be solved.
3) divisions and factions lead to an independence mindset, which destroys the catholic principle of community.
4) Independence in religion, leads to independence of thought, leads to independence of the natural law (i.e. sin).
5) Independence of natural law means a breakdown of order, the family and society.
6) A breakdown of society and family eventually leads to totalitarian govt, which arises to control a population that cannot control themselves (i.e. sinful people).