Author Topic: Anti-Popes and Non-Popes (Read 938 times)

Raoul76 · « **on:** June 25, 2009, 01:41:36 AM »

An anti-Pope is a man who was invalidly elected to the Papacy. An example would be Clement VII, elected by the French cardinals at the inception of the Great Western Schism when the real Pope was Urban VI.

A non-Pope is a man who throws himself out of the papacy through heresy. This has not happened before ( start arguments about Honorius... NOW ).

John XXIII may be both an anti-Pope -- if Siri was elected -- and a non-Pope. If Siri was not elected, he may be a non-Pope for convoking Vatican II. Or he may have been a real Pope who never directly taught heresy.

All who followed were non-Popes and non-Catholics. One shouldn't even tarnish the anti-Popes by using that term for these demons. The anti-Popes were often pious Catholic men ( they just happened not to be Pope ).

Raoul76 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2009, 01:42:48 AM »

I mean the advent of a non-Pope has not happened before Vatican II.

CM · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2009, 02:42:51 AM »

An antipope is anyone who claims to be pope when they are not.

Why are you confusing the issue?

roscoe · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2009, 01:33:16 PM »

The main occupation of my life in the last 10 yrs has been to study the history of the Catholic Church. Over 1900 yrs, I never encountered such a thing as a sede vacantist until about 2yrs ago. I also have never heard of such a thing as a 'non-pope'. I guess that could apply to anyone on the face of the Earth who is not the Pope-- an obvious attempt by R76 to be trivial.

CM · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2009, 11:24:36 PM »

Actually after reading his post about Una cuм, I think I know what he's getting at.

He's arguing that an anti-pope is a Catholic clergyman who was invalidly elected, yet claims to be pope, whereas a non-pope is someone making the claim who is not Catholic at all. In any case, both of Raoul76's classifications are antipopes and non popes if you ask me.

roscoe · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2009, 11:48:37 PM »

There are 3 ways to qualify as an anti-pope. 1-- An invalid election, 2-- loss of office by heretical or blaphemous word or deed, and 3-- a combination of both. Two examples of catagory 3 would be Boniface and Ben 15. This is the one thing I agree with CM on.

Rauol is incorrect when describing Clem VII as an anti-pope. This has been explained before.

I have never heard of a non-pope or for that matter a sede vacantist until about 2 yrs ago. If ever there was a time for such a thing as a 'sede vacantist' it was during the GWS and yet I have yet to see that term used in any of the things I have read.

Not all anti-popes are bad men but the great maj of them are.

CM · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2009, 02:31:26 AM »

Quote from: Roscoe

There are 3 ways to qualify as an anti-pope. 1-- An invalid election, 2-- loss of office by heretical or blaphemous word or deed, and 3-- a combination of both. Two examples of catagory 3 would be Boniface and Ben 15. This is the one thing I agree with CM on.

NO! Boniface VIII is a pope! End your schism you illogical man!

Quote from: Roscoe

Rauol is incorrect when describing Clem VII as an anti-pope. This has been explained before.

No, no, no there is never more than one pope!

Quote from: Roscoe

I have never heard of a non-pope or for that matter a sede vacantist until about 2 yrs ago. If ever there was a time for such a thing as a 'sede vacantist' it was during the GWS and yet I have yet to see that term used in any of the things I have read.

Are you for real? That's because there has always been a true pope opposing the antipopes and there the chair was only vacant in between the true popes' deaths and the election of their successors.

Quote from: Roscoe

Not all anti-popes are bad men but the great maj of them are.

All heretical antipopes are evil. All antipopes who were orthodox but knew in their heart of hearts that they were not canonically elected are evil. Orthodox antipopes who really thought they were pope may not have necessarily been evil.