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Author Topic: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque  (Read 11075 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
« on: September 14, 2025, 09:47:08 PM »
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  • https://x.com/CatholicSat/status/1967262199531115007

    Anti-popes JP2, Ben16 and Francis all did the same thing 🤔

    Offline Russiantrad

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #1 on: September 15, 2025, 12:09:51 AM »
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  • Pius XI also omitted the Filioque once.


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #2 on: September 15, 2025, 03:19:56 AM »
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  • And I too omit the Filioque when reciting the Nicaeno-Constantinopolitan Creed at Ruthenian or Urkrainian Divine Liturgy. It does not mean a denial of the Filioque; it means following Byzantine Tradition.

    Criticise the modernist pseudo-popes for truly damnable things that they say or do, not for something that you subjectively do not like.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Online Peter

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #3 on: September 15, 2025, 10:05:15 AM »
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  • Elwin,

    You must also know that the removal of the Filioque is a post Vatican 2 innovation at least for the Ukrainian/Ruthenian rite. 

    The post Vatican 2  Nopes remove it so as not to derail their false ecuмenical endeavours with the Eastern schismatics who deny the Filioque. If Pope Pius XI, presided over a Divine Liturgy without the Filioque, the Eastern Catholics present did not deny this doctrine and accepted it as their Latin Catholic counterparts. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #4 on: September 15, 2025, 01:17:55 PM »
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  • So, for the Ukrainians, they refer to it as a de-Latinization, not innovation.  Over time, various Latin Rite practices bled over to the Eastern Rites.  This was most pronounced among the Maronites ... for good (before Vatican II) or for ill (after Vatican II), but happened to lesser degrees in the Ruthenian / Ukrainian (essentially the St. John Chrysostom / St. Basil) Liturgical Rites as well.

    I believe that one could "get away with that" if in fact that's the goal, even if some or many have the same occult intention as those who remove it from the Latin Rite, aka the Modernist Popes ... namely, the hide some obstacle to reunion with the "separated brethren".

    So, for the Eastern Rites, it would be less of an innovation and more of a de-innovation (even if the occult motives of those behind it were not upright).  I'd be more concerned if those were the ONLY influences they started to roll back.  Among other things that the Ukrainians have started to roll back is kneeling during the Divine Liturgy, another Latinization, though you'll see some old timers or Latin Rite transfers continue to kneel during the Consecration, not having Stations of the Cross in churches (though they aren't actively removing them in places that already had them).

    I think that this de-Latinization is a bad idea, and I've even heard Ukrainian Rite priests complain about losing these customs, that the lack of keeling, Stations of the Cross, not having Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament ... that these were all great losses for them.



    Online Minnesota

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #5 on: September 15, 2025, 06:48:44 PM »
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  • So, for the Ukrainians, they refer to it as a de-Latinization, not innovation.  Over time, various Latin Rite practices bled over to the Eastern Rites.  This was most pronounced among the Maronites ... for good (before Vatican II) or for ill (after Vatican II), but happened to lesser degrees in the Ruthenian / Ukrainian (essentially the St. John Chrysostom / St. Basil) Liturgical Rites as well.

    I believe that one could "get away with that" if in fact that's the goal, even if some or many have the same occult intention as those who remove it from the Latin Rite, aka the Modernist Popes ... namely, the hide some obstacle to reunion with the "separated brethren".

    So, for the Eastern Rites, it would be less of an innovation and more of a de-innovation (even if the occult motives of those behind it were not upright).  I'd be more concerned if those were the ONLY influences they started to roll back.  Among other things that the Ukrainians have started to roll back is kneeling during the Divine Liturgy, another Latinization, though you'll see some old timers or Latin Rite transfers continue to kneel during the Consecration, not having Stations of the Cross in churches (though they aren't actively removing them in places that already had them).

    I think that this de-Latinization is a bad idea, and I've even heard Ukrainian Rite priests complain about losing these customs, that the lack of keeling, Stations of the Cross, not having Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament ... that these were all great losses for them.
    There's some that are so de-Latinized that they're basically Orthodox liturgies with the Pope's name inserted.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 07:59:02 PM »
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  • There's some that are so de-Latinized that they're basically Orthodox liturgies with the Pope's name inserted.

    :facepalm:  Liturgies of the Orthodox and the Eastern Rite Catholics ARE "basically" the same, both of them going back to those of St. John Chrysostom, with some variations (a couple different Anaphoras, one of them from St. Basil).

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #7 on: Today at 01:17:36 AM »
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  • There's some that are so de-Latinized that they're basically Orthodox liturgies with the Pope's name inserted.
    I know several Byzantine Catholics who define themselves as "Orthodox in communion with the Bishop of Rome". The "in communion with" matters! This self-definition is squarely in line with the provisions of the Treaties of Brest and Uzhgorod whereby communion was restored between Rome and the Ruthenian and Ukrainian Churches.

    I strongly support de-Latinisation of the Eastern Churches in the same way I strongly support the de-Byzantinisation of the contemporary Latin Church. If you know, you know.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Online Peter

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #8 on: Today at 09:47:53 AM »
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  • For those Greek Catholics opposed to so-called Latinisms, here are excerpts  from a pastoral letter on "Byzantinisms" from Ukrainian Catholic Bishop and Martyr, Hryhory Khomyshyn. Read the entire article at the following URL. I scanned it from the book by Peter Galadza - Appendix D of "The Theology and Liturgical Work of Andrei Sheptytsky". This great and holy bishop died in the notorious prison - Lukniavisky Prison in Kiev in 1947 for the Catholic Faith.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ocDwmaKklO1jfzO4D3yFcYyAAKvxS2Jg/view?usp=drivesdk
    Quote
    [from pp. 483-484] Only with the rise of the reformed Basilian Order during the pontificate of  Pope Leo XIII of blessed memory did the religious and spiritual life awaken. With their parish missions, clergy retreats, pastoral activity, and religious publications, the Basilian Fathers shattered the ice of our cold ritualism, and paved the way for the flowering of the interior life derived from grace. First and foremost, the Eucharistic cult, with all of its practices - for example, adoration, and the celebration of the solemnity of the Divine Body - developed among us. Also, the Sacerdotal Society of the Adoration of the Most Holy Eucharist now exists. Then there are the practices of the cult of the most sacred Heart of Jesus, the Feast of Christ's Heart, the Apostleship of Prayer in union with the Heart of Christ And First Fridays and First Sundays draw many of our faithful to divine services and the reception of the Mysteries. As for the veneration of the most pure Virgin Mary, the situation is readily apparent. Even though Mary was always highly venerated and intensely loved by our people, a practical Marian cult entered our churches only through the efforts of the Basilian Order. This cult is very influential and beneficial for the spread of the kingdom of God in the soul's interior. As regards the practical devotion developed by the Basilians, suffice it to mention the Marian Congregations, the solemn celebrations of the Immaculate Conception, the May services. The recitation of the chaplet and rosary is now generally practiced among priests and faithful, although I can still remember a time when our priests were scandalized to see a chaplet in the hands of one of our faithful. Also, the scapular has come to be accepted, and no one today is offended by it. 
    [...]
    At the same time, the [Ukrainian] Rite did not suffer; all of these practices introduced into our Church are clothed in Eastern Rite forms. In fact, because of these practices our Rite has acquired vitality, warmth; and it sparks interest among our faithful. Today no one in our Church believes that these practices are Latin, or Polish; rather, they are viewed as ours - Catholic. In addition, even celibacy has been accepted in the dioccse ofStanyslaviv as of 1920, and in Peremyshl since 1925. And even though this caused an uproar and lead to loud protestations, all the same the world didn't end, nor did the nation perish.


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    [/b][from p. 490The Catholic practices introduced into our Church are not impositions. We ourselves accepted them, as a necessary development of our spiritual organism. We didn't become Latins as a result of this, nor did we lose the characteristics of the Eastern Rite, for we clothed these Catholic practices in Eastern Rite form. [/b][/font]Our faithful have come to love these Catholic practices, they desire them; flocking to church they actively participate in them. They maintain their Rite in such a way that these practices aren't viewed by our people as Latin -or Polish (as the case may be in our circuмstances); they are viewed as Catholic, and as our own native practices at that. By adopting them we have not lost anything pertaining to nationality. To the contrary, we've become even stronger. To put it simply, we now feel entirely at home in Catholicism. None of these Catholic devotions violates the Eastern Rite. Just the opposite is true; they vivify it, infuse it with warmth and attractiveness. Also, they are the strongest support for the Catholic faith. Wherever they are practiced, the faithful are conscious of their faith, and neither Protestant nor schismatic agitation is able to affect them. On the other hand, wherever there is a focus[...][/color]


    Online Peter

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #9 on: Today at 09:51:43 AM »
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  • With respect to being “orthodox in communion with Rome”, here is Melkite bishop John Elya’s opinion.
    Note that he was one of two bishops among the worldwide Melkite Catholic hierarchy who did not sign the heretical Zoghby agreement. 

    From way-back machine URL: https://web.archive.org/web/20201025102827/https://melkite.org/eparchy/bishop-john/are-we-orthodox-united-with-rome



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    [/font] QUESTION:[/size][/color]

    Are we Orthodox united with Rome? Several different people have written in asking some variation on this most fundament of questions. Since each question was directed in a slightly different way, Bishop John has chosen a rather more complete answer.

    BISHOP JOHN’S ANSWER

    Sometimes I think that the Melkite Catholic Church, as well as other Byzantine Catholic Churches, enjoys the best of two worlds: Orthodoxy and Catholicism. We rejoice in the affirmation of the good Pope John XXIII that “what unites us is much greater than what divides us.”

    When the Patriarchate of Antioch was divided into two branches in 1724, one branch kept the name Orthodox and the other branch which sealed its union with the Holy See of Rome, kept the name Melkite given to it since the Sixth Century and called itself Catholic. It became known as the Melkite Greek Catholic Church. In the Middle East, although both branches claim orthodoxy as well as catholicity, however being Catholic means not Orthodox and being Orthodox means not Catholic. To be a Catholic Christian means that one accepts the primacy of the Pope of Rome, because he is the successor of St. Peter. To be an Orthodox Christian means that one does not recognize the primacy of the Pope of Rome, but considers him as “first among equals.”

    According to the Catholic teaching, Christ did not create a church with five heads of equal importance. He established One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church whose invisible head is the Lord, but whose visible head is the Pope of Rome.

    The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches states it in these terms: “The bishop of the Church of Rome, in whom resides the office (munus) given in a special way by the Lord to Peter, first of the Apostles and to be transmitted to his successors, is head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the entire Church on earth; therefore in virtue of his office (munus) he enjoys supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church which he can always freely exercise.” (Canon 43 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches)

    If an Orthodox subscribes to the Canon quoted above, he/she can be called Catholic and be considered “united to Rome” or in full communion with the Catholic Church.

    An illustration may help: Is the Province of Quebec a province of France united to the British Crown through Canada, or a Canadian province with special relations to France? Is the Melkite Church a hundred per cent Catholic with special relations with the Orthodox Churches or a hundred per cent Orthodox with special relations to Rome. Certainly, the first case is true:

    The Melkite Church is a hundred per cent Catholic, but not a hundred per cent Orthodox.
    Independence and sovereignty or dependence on another Church? Such a decision is difficult to make. However, the Melkite Church has chosen dependency as a price for unity, in order to comply with the will of our Lord who prayed repeatedly “that all may be one.” (John 17)


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #10 on: Today at 11:17:04 AM »
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  • Pius XI also omitted the Filioque once.
    Do you have a source on this?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Russiantrad

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    Re: Anti-Pope Leo omits Filioque
    « Reply #11 on: Today at 01:27:09 PM »
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