Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Fanny on March 21, 2018, 09:53:16 PM
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http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2018/03/20/sspx-canada-implicitly-admits-state-of-necessity-no-longer-exists/
St. Raphael’s Priory of the SSPX in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada has published its March 2018 Bulletin (http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/SSPXCanadaMarch2018.pdf) in which there is a picture of a married couple standing beside a Novus Ordo priest and Fr. Richard Vachon, SSPX. It seems that the couple were married by the Novus Ordo priest in his parish (https://staug.ca/) and Fr. Vachon celebrated the Traditional Mass afterwards. By this act, the SSPX Canadian District has implicitly admitted that the state of necessity no longer exists. Therefore, it can no longer resort to using the argument of supplied jurisdiction for the validity of its marriages.
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There are SSPX priests who will argue that the supplied jurisdiction was never an argument for validity of marriages but only confessions. If any have come to the point of getting married by an SSPX priest, there is a form which one signs. The form explains that the milieu of the Novus Ordo etc, but does not specifically mention supplied jurisdiction. Newer SSPX priests do argue that the supplied jurisdiction was only in regards to confession. I had a long conversation with a priest about this just recently.
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:really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2:
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There are SSPX priests who will argue that the supplied jurisdiction was never an argument for validity of marriages but only confessions.
What does that mean? Are they saying that the couples married by the SSPX in the past are living in adultery?
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What does that mean? Are they saying that the couples married by the SSPX in the past are living in adultery?
That would be the logical conclusion, it seems.
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What does that mean? Are they saying that the couples married by the SSPX in the past are living in adultery?
It would explain all the annulment requests coming out of st. Marys.
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It would explain all the annulment requests coming out of st. Marys.
I've been told that in the Novus Ordo, being married by an SSPX priest has always been valid grounds for an annulment. How many annulments like this are there in St. Mary's?
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Some people stick with it just for the Mass.They are otherwise aware that it is a dying Society. It has taken Trads for a right royal ride
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I've been told that in the Novus Ordo, being married by an SSPX priest has always been valid grounds for an annulment. How many annulments like this are there in St. Mary's?
It's true, the Novus Ordo does not recognize any marriages of the SSPX (yet they do for Prots???) nor "Resistance" or probably any Sedevecante marriages. I know this first hand and have been told so directly.
As for SSPX divorces (a.k.a. "annulments"), an older cleric told me the rate is around 1 in 5, if memory serves me correctly. I don't know if this is only applicable to the marriages he officiated or just in a particular major northern U.S. State he was in or the whole of the SSPX
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It's true, the Novus Ordo does not recognize any marriages of the SSPX (yet they do for Prots???) nor "Resistance" or probably any Sedevecante marriages. I know this first hand and have been told so directly.
As for SSPX divorces (a.k.a. "annulments"), an older cleric told me the rate is around 1 in 5, if memory serves me correctly. I don't know if this is only applicable to the marriages he officiated or just in a particular major northern U.S. State he was in or the whole of the SSPX
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An independent TLM priest showed me a book from the archdiocese that lists all the marriages on record for a period of time and he said that if your marriage isn't in this book then the bishop says you were not married in the archdiocese. He then assured me that no independent priests can submit reports to the diocese for the information to be added to the book because the chancery office does not recognize reports from independent priests.
In order to be on record as having been married you must be married by a Novus Ordo priest under the diocese.
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The Novus Ordo "priest" does not even dress up for the wedding. Look at his clothes, gray pants and a faded black shirt.
(https://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48376.0;attach=11610;image) (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/sspx-canada-state-of-necessity-no-longer-exists/?action=dlattach;attach=11609;image)
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An independent TLM priest showed me a book from the archdiocese that lists all the marriages on record for a period of time and he said that if your marriage isn't in this book then the bishop says you were not married in the archdiocese. He then assured me that no independent priests can submit reports to the diocese for the information to be added to the book because the chancery office does not recognize reports from independent priests.
In order to be on record as having been married you must be married by a Novus Ordo priest under the diocese.
I asked my SSPX priests weeks after we were married what he did with the docuмents and he told me they are sent to the diocese and to the headquarters in Kansas City.
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I've been told that in the Novus Ordo, being married by an SSPX priest has always been valid grounds for an annulment. How many annulments like this are there in St. Mary's?
A lot.
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I asked my SSPX priests weeks after we were married what he did with the docuмents and he told me they are sent to the diocese and to the headquarters in Kansas City.
Just because they are sent to the diocese does not mean they are recorded in the diocese records.
People forget... the sacrament of matrimony is not given by the priest. It is given by the bride to the groom and vice versa. The priest is only the witness in the eyes of God.
So whether or not your marriage is "legal" in the eyes of the Church does not matter to God. What matters to God is your state of mind during your wedding and whether or not you received the sacrament or gave it.
All those SSPXers who are getting annulments are in for a rude awakening when they die.
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Another photo of the wedding.
Where are the chapel veils?
Where is the sanctuary lamp?
Where is the crucifix?
Why would this couple agree to this?
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Another photo of the wedding.
Where are the chapel veils?
Where is the sanctuary lamp?
Where is the crucifix?
Why would this couple agree to this?
The crucifix is above the statue of Our Lord on the reredos.
As to the other questions you pose, I'm as confused as you are.
Is this couple even SSPX? If they are, what is the point of having the wedding in the Novus Ordo church rather than whatever chapel they go to?
This seems to be going a lot further than what the SSPX is supposed to be going even with Francis' new marriage rule. A slippery slope indeed.
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The crucifix is above the statue of Our Lord on the reredos.
As to the other questions you pose, I'm as confused as you are.
Is this couple even SSPX? If they are, what is the point of having the wedding in the Novus Ordo church rather than whatever chapel they go to?
This seems to be going a lot further than what the SSPX is supposed to be going even with Francis' new marriage rule. A slippery slope indeed.
There's a crucifix above that statue? I can't see it...
The marriage was in the SSPX bulletin, so I assume the bride and groom are sspx.
What is the point of having it in a NO church? To show Rome the SSPX is ready, willing and able to become another fraternity of st. Peter. The slipperiest of slippery slopes...
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Why would this couple agree to this?
Because their priest told them that they have to.
Because they have been taught by the SSPX that the Novus Ordo priest is not just a laymen.
These are young people and everything they have learned from the SSPX has led them to where they are today.
Likely they married in the Novus Ordo church because it looks better inside than their humble church that was built by real traditionalist years ago, and given to the SSPX in exchange for the priests who brought them to where they are today, to believing every reason I've put here.
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Because their priest told them that they have to.
Because they have been taught by the SSPX that the Novus Ordo priest is not just a laymen.
These are young people and everything they have learned from the SSPX has led them to where they are today.
Likely they married in the Novus Ordo church because it looks better inside than their humble church that was built by real traditionalist years ago, and given to the SSPX in exchange for the priests who brought them to where they are today, to believing every reason I've put here.
It is all so very sad...
All the blood, sweat and tears that the old timer traditionalists put into saving the Faith is being washed away by those who swore to try to save it.
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It is all so very sad...
All the blood, sweat and tears that the old timer traditionalists put into saving the Faith is being washed away by those (the SSPX priests) who swore to try to save it.
It is 1965 all over again.
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It is all so very sad...
All the blood, sweat and tears that the old timer traditionalists put into saving the Faith is being washed away by those who swore to try to save it.
Sort of like all of those poor, naive, clueless Novus Ordo women in the trenches protesting baby-murder mills, yet their apostate bishops and anti-pope Frank stab them in their backs by continuing to give pro-abortion politicians Holy Communion.
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Well, I prayed you would skip this thread all together...
Wish there was a way to block my seeing posts of people I choose to block.
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Fr. Girouard's commentary on the situation:
https://thebastion.faith/the-neo-sspx-is-turning-chinese/
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And there is a table in the foreground, altar in the background! I can’t imagine why they would do this if they are SSPX members.
Has anyone heard from priests in the trenches about this issue? Will they cooperate with NO for wedding?
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Another photo of the wedding.
Where are the chapel veils?
Where is the sanctuary lamp?
Where is the crucifix?
Why would this couple agree to this?
I found the sanctuary lamp!
It is lit, too!
Standing to the right of the altar.
So has the SSPX said mass here before?
How did the SSPX priest allow a lit sanctuary lamp?
Did the SSPX priest mix the NO questionable Eucharist with traditional Eucharist?
Did he care about these things?
Or are they all one big happy family now and he doesn't need to consider these things?
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Excellent questions Fanny!
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I wonder why the Vatican II Church makes all this fuss about marriages when they believe in Religious Liberty for everyone, and also Paul VI-Montini declared that one's conscience is the supreme arbiter of truth - in words to that effect.
Or unknown to all was it the SSPX leadership that coaxed Bergoglio into making this sort of arrangement so as to allow them to get their feet further into the Novus Ordo Church?
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The crucifix is above the statue of Our Lord on the reredos.
Still can't see the crucifix.
What I see is decoration. Of course, when I blow up the picture it becomes fuzzy.
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Still can't see the crucifix.
What I see is decoration. Of course, when I blow up the picture it becomes fuzzy.
See it now?
(https://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48376.0;attach=11610;image) (https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/sspx-canada-state-of-necessity-no-longer-exists/?action=dlattach;attach=11609;image)
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I found the cross.
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While they seem to have left the main altar from PRE-VATII, they seem pretty liberal.
"Rite of Christian initiation for adults"
"Catholic women's league" in sanctuary
"Charismatic prayer group"
Again I ask, why would an sspx couple and the parents of the SSPX couple, approve of marriage in such a place, with a NO officiating?
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Is the couple or the priest ashamed of their sspx chapel? Looks nice to me..
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Is the couple or the priest ashamed of their sspx chapel? Looks nice to me..
Yes, I am certain that they are embarrased. It is a very humble chapel. It looks similar, but at tad more ornate than the one I got married in. But of course, my wife was not vain, she is very proud of having been married in such a humble church.
I would get married on a rock if that is what God sent me.
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Yes, I am certain that they are embarrased. It is a very humble chapel. It looks similar, but at tad more ornate than the one I got married in. But of course, my wife was not vain, she is very proud of having been married in such a humble church.
I would get married on a rock if that is what God sent me.
It is no cathedral, but it is nice.
I, too, would get married on a rock if that is what God sent me.