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Author Topic: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio  (Read 63088 times)

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Offline Johannes

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Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
« on: January 29, 2025, 08:07:19 AM »
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  • Maybe Padre Pio (PP) was a saint, maybe he wasn't. He was sensational to be sure. No one questions the canonization of St. Theresa the Little Flower - why? Because she was a nobody, who lived a quiet cloistered life and suffered in silence without drawing attention. PP was different, some could argue (in one sense) that he was even more sensational than his spiritual Father St. Francis.

    Since he was both "beatified/canonized" by the arch-Hieserich Woytiya (JP2) - true Catholics cannot know he is saint without the infallible protections of the papacy giving that guarantee. As R&R Traditional Catholics, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If Padre Pio is to be held by all the faithful as a saint, then so is JP2. You don't get to pick-n-choose which canonizations of a valid pope you are going to accept.

    I am making this thread to act as a sort of collection of lay "devil's advocate" items to point out doctrinal inconsistencies, anomalies, strange connections, etc. that have to do with Padre Pio. This isn't a personal attack against PP or PP lovers - just pointing out oddities. If there is nothing to find there is nothing to fear.

    Feel free to comment or add to this ongoing thread if you should so wish.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #1 on: January 29, 2025, 10:36:29 AM »
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  • Julius Fine
    Florence Fine Herman in 1965 asked Padre Pio to pray for her father who had terminal ALS. He promised to take him under his protection. He was a devout Jew. Two years later he died. She was told by friends that without baptism one cannot be saved. She went back to Padre Pio with a heavy heart. She took the courage to ask: “Where is my father?” Padre Pio replied: “Julius Fine is saved. But we need to pray a lot for him.”[23]


    Padre Pio was asked if he suffered like the souls in Purgatory. He replied: “Yes. The souls in Purgatory don’t suffer more than I do. I am sure that I am not wrong on this.”[5]

    Annita Lodi’s parents

    Annita Lodi testified that she told Padre Pio after confession: “Tomorrow is the feast if St. Francis. Please ask him to go to Purgatory and free the souls of my parents.” Padre Pio replied: “I can do it myself.”[21]



    So the Dimond Brothers adress these very well in that link I posted the other day.

    So, just in general about Padre Pio, I doubt that there's any figure in all of history to whom more bogus quotes and saying have been attributed, not even close.  I could go on for hours with fake "Padre Pio Quotes" that people made up, many of which were positively debunked afterwards.  Just to give a couple.  Fake Padre Pio quote telling JP2 he would be pope some day when Wojtyla met Padre.  Even Wojtyla later admitted this was not true.  Fake quote where Pio reprimands Archbishop Lefebvre, saying something like "You will think you are right, but you will be wrong."  Both +Lefebvre and another witness there say that no such quote ever happened, that the only thing that happened was that Archbishop Lefebvre asked Padre Pio for his blessing, but the latter instead asked for +Lefebvre's, since he was a bishop and Pio only a priest.  You can see in the picture how Padre Pio was beaming with happiness in meeting +Lefebvre.  There are myriad other bogus quotes, especially from people with an agendfa.  Pio approved Garbandal.  False.  Pio approved this.  Pio approved that.  99% are probably fake.

    So with the perfect storm of the internet, where anyone can make up anything and the stature of Padre Pio, there are probably thousands of fake Padre Pio quotes out there.

    But the Dimond Brothers explain the above by giving it the proper context, where it was likely that Fine converted and was baptized.  Except we have no one's word for it except that of the Jew, who may have faked it to promote some agenda.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #2 on: January 29, 2025, 10:41:13 AM »
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  • IF the hands and feet had been "annihilated" as stated above - could the use of Carbolic Acid be a potential cause?

    No.  Padre Pio's wounds cleared up before he died, so even if you continue to assert the bogus Carbolic Acid claim (which doctors conclusively ruled out and debunked), he would have stopped using it before he died.

    Of course, this all rests upon 1) an unsubstantiated claim that only his hands and feet had corrupted, and 2) some subjective interpretation of what that might "mean".  During his life Padre Padio actually asked God to keep the stigmata hidden, and then they did disappear toward the end, and this "sign" might be a continuation of that.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #3 on: January 29, 2025, 10:43:40 AM »
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  • Do you claim these people are lying?

    THE ORIGINAL LETTER OF PADRE PIO TO THE SEERS OF GARABANDAL | Garabandal News

    Yep.  100% they're lying.  Even during his lifetime there were a number of faked letters sent pretending to be from Padre Pio and the key identifying attribute was that they were typed on a typewriter (which Padre himself didn't know how to use).  This has been dealt with elsewhere.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #4 on: January 29, 2025, 10:44:55 AM »
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  • A perfect example of how we should be cautious about him, since without the proper investigation done by the proper authorities, it is all a he said/she said mess, and one doesn't really know what to believe about him.

    Correct.  I agree with the initial premise that without legitimate canonization we can't be certain ... so just arguing the details.  You should listen to the one link from the Dimonds where they defend Padre Pio against a ton of false charges, many of the fake quotes, etc.


    Online Everlast22

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #5 on: January 29, 2025, 10:56:39 AM »
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  • That Mark Twain quote about people not wanting to admit they were deceived is coming out in full force these days. My goodness.

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #6 on: January 29, 2025, 11:01:31 AM »
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  • There is a large Padre Pio statue in the back of the Post Falls chapel. I find that to be intellectually schizophrenic. But then again, didn't the SSPX make a statue of Lefebrve for the facade of one of the portico's at the Immaculata?
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Online Everlast22

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #7 on: January 29, 2025, 11:03:39 AM »
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  • How do you mean?

    And

    Mark Twain :laugh1: What an enormous loser (he was truly deceived)

    Twain was a Presbyterian.[178] He was critical of organized religion and certain elements of Christianity through his later life. For example, Twain wrote, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so", and "If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be – a Christian".[179] With anti-Catholic sentiment rampant in 19th century America, Twain noted that he was "educated to enmity toward everything that is Catholic".[180] As an adult, Twain engaged in religious discussions and attended services, his theology developing as Twain wrestled with the deaths of loved ones and with his own mortality.[18

    Those who knew Twain well late in life recount that he dwelt on the subject of the afterlife, his daughter Clara saying: "Sometimes he believed death ended everything, but most of the time he felt sure of a life beyond."[193]

    Twain was a Freemason.[195][196] He belonged to Polar Star Lodge No. 79 A.F.&A.M., based in St. Louis. Twain was initiated an Entered Apprentice on May 22, 1861, passed to the degree of Fellow Craft on June 12, and raised to the degree of Master Mason on July 10.
    His specific quote is spot on about people not wanting to admit they are being deceived. I don't care what religion or ideology he had. 


    Online Everlast22

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #8 on: January 29, 2025, 11:07:21 AM »
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  • So in the context of this thread how do you mean?
    Good point, I should have given that.  - The fake quotes on promoting JP2 and such. Not people in these threads, I'm sure we all know they are fake. 
    There is a movie about him denouncing fascism and such, which I'm almost 100 percent sure he DID NOT do.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #9 on: January 29, 2025, 11:08:47 AM »
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  • At the Garabandal link, they explicitly explain WHY people make up Padre Pio quotes and material ...
    Quote
    Today no one would question the truth of an event if Padre Pio had authenticated it. This is the case of the apparitions of the Virgin in San Sebastian of Garabandal, in Cantabria (Spain). 


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #10 on: January 29, 2025, 11:10:56 AM »
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  • There is a large Padre Pio statue in the back of the Post Falls chapel. I find that to be intellectually schizophrenic. But then again, didn't the SSPX make a statue of Lefebrve for the facade of one of the portico's at the Immaculata?

    I'm not sure whether there's a requirement that an individual be canonized before putting up a statue, especially at the back of the chapel.  I don't think so.  I'm guessing that, say, some order, could put up one of their founder even before canonization or maybe even beatification.

    But that's expected SSPX, where they can decide which canonizations are legit and which are not, selectively, making themselves the final authority.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #11 on: January 29, 2025, 11:32:54 AM »
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  • I own a copy of Peter's book, it is great. I have nothing against PP. Still, we don't know...

    Right.  Of course we don't know for sure, and I'm open to reasonable/rational discussions on the subject.  I did read that one link that Matthew posted with an open mind ... it just turned out to be pure trash.  And the problem here is what I said, where if I had to guess, I'd say that 99% of the "Padre Pio Quotes" are fakes, either made up by people with an agenda, or sensationalistic nonsense made up to get clicks on the internet (oh, yeah, that's another fake one I forgot ... Three Days Darkness.  Padre Pio never talked about it, but there are volumes of fake quotes from him about the subject, because it's sensationalistic and gets clicks.)  We're not in a position to do a full investigation.

    And, really, why spend the time?  My faith certainly doesn't depend on Padre Pio.  There's very little (except mostly fake quotes) that might cause some harm to faith.  So I just stay away from the subject, deferring to competent ecclesiastical authority, when it comes.  As for me, if I had only one hour and had to choose between spending it before the Blessed Sacrament or in conversation with Padre Pio, one-on-one, close up, looking at his stigmata, I'd spend the time before the Blesesed Sacrament.  Stigmata are childsplay to the miracle of transubstantiation, and Padre Pio is a nobody compared to Our Lord the Blessed Sacrament.  Padre Pio himself complained that his Masses were filled with people but there were other priests there at the monastery who couldn't find an altar server to serve their Masses.  Are we there for God or for him?

    So my attitude about Padre Pio is, if he was a great saint, then I'm happy for him, good for him ... but as far as I'm concerned, I only really care about the things of God.

    Now, there are some somewhat-more-reliable statements from him that might be of some use, such as related by Father Amorth, a rather more reliable source, who related what Padre Pio said about the Third Secret of Fatima, basically saying that it dealt with an Antichurch and some Antipopes.

    Then of course there's the bigger picture of Conciliar canonizations, but that's not specific to Padre Pio.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #12 on: January 29, 2025, 11:36:30 AM »
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  • The list of liars about PP is getting quite long (if they are in fact lying) ...

    And the longer you go, the longer the list of liars will get.  As pointed out, you could probably find thousands of such lies on the interwebs, including from people that claim they have solid information they were privy to.  I believe the ones about JP2 and +Lefebvre in particular came from otherwise "reputable" sources, but were then debunked by people who were there (Wojtyla himself and +Lefebvre).

    I'm beginning to think the Dimond Brothers were right in classifying you as a radical schismatic.  You're clearly hell-bent on attacking Padre Pio.  Are you the author of that trash article that Matthew posted?

    Online Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #13 on: January 29, 2025, 11:42:06 AM »
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  • A real Pope and his people will decide if Padre Pio is a saint or not. 

    Meanwhile, I found it very poor when the Brazilian branch of the SSPX promoted a trip to Italy on which they visited San Giovanni Rotondo. I mean, there are so many saints, sanctuaries and places related to pre-Vatican 2 canonized saints in Italy, and they chose to go to Padre Pio's place. 

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Anomalies surrounding Padre Pio
    « Reply #14 on: January 29, 2025, 11:53:43 AM »
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  • Saint (Padre) Pio affirms Garabandal to a PH.D in confession.
    .

    :facepalm:

    There is no way to verify what a priest says to someone in confession. The person could say the priest told him literally anything, and the priest can't deny it or comment on it at all. To say this is not evidence is an understatement.