Author Topic: Annulment (Read 2415 times)

Nadir · « **on:** October 28, 2013, 03:14:17 PM »

Is this a true statement?

Quote

Catholics who are applying for an annulment are required to obtain a divorce first.

TKGS · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2013, 03:37:33 PM »

Here's just one example from the diocese of Arlington (https://www.arlingtondiocese.org/tribunal/faq.aspx#Petitioner)

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Who can ask for an annulment?

Either party in a marriage that has ended in divorce has the right to ask the Church to review a former marriage. Although one party makes the request, the other party has the right to participate in the process. The rights of both parties must be respected and protected by the Tribunal. The former spouse will be contacted and informed of his/her rights in the process. To avoid contacting the former spouse could invalidate the entire process because the right of defense has not been protected.

(Emphasis added.)

The docuмent for the Archdiocese of New York (found at: http://www.archny.org/media/files---tribunal/ENGLISH%20-%20Petition%20Info%20-%20Website.doc) takes as a given that the parties are divorced.

And the archdiocese of Baltimore also indicates that the petitioner must be divorced (http://www.archbalt.org/about-us/marriage-tribunal/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&PageID=6575)

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MYTH NUMBER EIGHT:
The Ex-Spouse Has to Agree to an Annulment Or It Can't Be Granted

The truth is that both spouses have equal rights in an annulment proceeding, but that doesn't mean that the Respondent—the ex-spouse of the person who starts the annulment process—has to agree to an annulment. The truth is that the Tribunal judges can grant an annulment even if the ex-spouse is adamantly opposed to the idea of an annulment. It is a myth that both spouses have to agree to an annulment.

(Emphasis added.)

While the diocese of Green Bay is very clear on the matter (http://www.gbdioc.org/what-the-church-can-do-for-you/annulments/q-a-a-on-annulment-process.html)

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2. To whom does the Tribunal minister?

The Tribunal generally ministers to men and women who have been through a civil divorce. Catholics and non-Catholics (who are marrying a Catholic) can approach the Tribunal.

(Emphasis added.)

These are just four quick examples. It could be multiplied many times. Is there an exception to this? I've never seen one. Some dioceses clearly indicate on their websites that a divorce occurs first, others are not so clear, but if you can find any example in which the Conciliar church does not require a civil divorce before applying for an annulment or if the Conciliar church even bothers to try to reconcile the couple after a divorce, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Nadir · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2013, 05:58:20 PM »

Thank you, TKGS, for responding to my question. I did not think to search diocesan websites, silly me!

The various quotes seem to refer to "Either party in a marriage that has ended in divorce", "ex-spouses", "men and women who have been through a civil divorce" (but in this quote "generally" is added).

Do you, or anybody else here, know if a married person approached to ask for an annulment (with good reason), their case would be investigated without being directed to apply for civil divorce?

And does anyone know what the new code of canon law has to say about this?

Thank you.

Nadir · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2013, 09:22:23 PM »

I did try the NY link but it didn't work for me. Nevertheless I got onto their website and downloaded Application / Petition for Declaration of Nullity of a Marriage at http://www.archny.org/departments/?search=tribunal&C=229&I=942 and that form definitely makes the assumption that whoever fills out the form already is civilly divorced or annulled!

TKGS · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2013, 06:38:11 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Thank you, TKGS, for responding to my question. I did not think to search diocesan websites, silly me!

The various quotes seem to refer to "Either party in a marriage that has ended in divorce", "ex-spouses", "men and women who have been through a civil divorce" (but in this quote "generally" is added).

Do you, or anybody else here, know if a married person approached to ask for an annulment (with good reason), their case would be investigated without being directed to apply for civil divorce?

And does anyone know what the new code of canon law has to say about this?

Thank you.

I don't know what the new Code of Canon Law says, but I doubt it is clear. I have never heard of a case being "investigated" prior to a civil divorce.

shin · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2013, 08:42:48 AM »

When did divorce go from being a crime and a sin, to a requirement to get an annulment?

Luker · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2013, 10:19:29 AM »

Quote from: shin

When did divorce go from being a crime and a sin, to a requirement to get an annulment?

I'm just going to take a wild guess and say some time shortly after 1965...

Luke

songbird · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2013, 08:21:35 PM »

Nadir: Why do you ask about the New Canon Law. The True Church has had annulment for a long time. Like Henry the VIII. Annulment means a marriage never happened. Divorce is civil and sometimes is necessary.

It appears to me that the New Order wants to push divorce. So, let us say a married couple do have a true annulment. Now, they go to the State. Does the State recognize annulment, yes they do, usually up to one year after marriage. Now, would that couple need an annulment from the New Order? I don't know why they would. Now, if the New Order is thinking about re-marriage, then maybe that would be the case.

The only other reason that I would think that the New Order would put it in the hands of the State is that the New Order would be showing that they work with the state, and that is money and when the New Order gives out annulments like Halloween candy, there is money again.

Question: If a couple joins any church for that matter, do they question you if you have been married, divorced and such? Don't people just walk in and just sit right down and then get the wafer?

I think the whole thing is just money making.

My daughter married in a NO and there was an annulment before the year was up. She asked the NO for an annulment. As long as she paid $1,000, the annulment came through. On the grounds of children not wanted by the man, who just was out for money. Used our daughters name on the house in order to buy it and etc. Then in 2 years she married in a traditional church.

Nadir · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2013, 09:29:49 PM »

Quote from: songbird

My daughter married in a NO and there was an annulment before the year was up. She asked the NO for an annulment. As long as she paid $1,000, the annulment came through. On the grounds of children not wanted by the man, who just was out for money. Used our daughters name on the house in order to buy it and etc. Then in 2 years she married in a traditional church.

Songbird, I am sorry to hear about your daughter's dreadful experience.

But you didn't answered the question in my original post,

Quote

Is this a true statement? Catholics who are applying for an annulment are required to obtain a divorce first.

So, did the diocese require that your daughter obtain a civil divorce before proceeding with the anullment, or not?

If they did not require civil divorce as a condition of considering anullment then it would seem that the new canon law does not demand it (unless of course they broke canon law :thinking:).

Anyway, thank you for your input.

poche · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2013, 11:06:53 PM »

Quote from: Nadir

Is this a true statement?

Quote
Catholics who are applying for an annulment are required to obtain a divorce first.

yes.

poche · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2013, 11:08:47 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Nadir
Thank you, TKGS, for responding to my question. I did not think to search diocesan websites, silly me!

The various quotes seem to refer to "Either party in a marriage that has ended in divorce", "ex-spouses", "men and women who have been through a civil divorce" (but in this quote "generally" is added).

Do you, or anybody else here, know if a married person approached to ask for an annulment (with good reason), their case would be investigated without being directed to apply for civil divorce?

And does anyone know what the new code of canon law has to say about this?

Thank you.

I don't know what the new Code of Canon Law says, but I doubt it is clear. I have never heard of a case being "investigated" prior to a civil divorce.

Prior to teh divorce the presumption as to the validity of the marriage enjoys teh favor of the law.

poche · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2013, 11:11:02 PM »

Quote from: shin

When did divorce go from being a crime and a sin, to a requirement to get an annulment?

Why live together as man and wife if the marriage is null?

Nadir · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2013, 12:35:31 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: Nadir
Is this a true statement?

Quote
Catholics who are applying for an annulment are required to obtain a divorce first.

yes.

Can you quote me the evidence for your affirmative response, please, Poche? I'd really like a lead on this. The Vat2 new Canon Law perhaps.

poche · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2013, 12:59:37 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: poche
Quote from: Nadir
Is this a true statement?

Quote
Catholics who are applying for an annulment are required to obtain a divorce first.

yes.

Can you quote me the evidence for your affirmative response, please, Poche? I'd really like a lead on this. The Vat2 new Canon Law perhaps.

From Canon Law;

Can. 1150 In a doubtful matter the privilege of faith possesses the favor of the law.
The fact that there is no civil divorce means that the marriage is presumed to be valid.

Also;

Can. 1676 Before accepting a case and whenever there is hope of a favorable outcome, a judge is to use pastoral means to induce the spouses if possible to convalidate the marriage and restore conjugal living.

If there is no civil divorce then there is presumed the possibility of a favorable outcome.

Can. 1071 §1. Except in a case of necessity, a person is not to assist without the permission of the local ordinary at:

1/ a marriage of transients;

2/ a marriage which cannot be recognized or celebrated according to the norm of civil law;

In most countries the marriage of a person who is already married civilly to someone else is against the law.

Nadir · « **Reply #14 on:** October 30, 2013, 02:35:10 AM »

None of those seem to be relevent to my question - must one first seek a civil divorce before applying for anullment?.