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Offline Cheryl

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« on: December 18, 2010, 07:07:04 AM »
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  • Wasn't sure if I wanted to post this or not.  But having read the bashing of Real Catholic TV from the quotes of CAF forum members on the Plug CathInfo thread, I thought I'd let CI members judge for themselves if Real Catholic TV is bad.


    http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/GXFj8Vu-R-c

    Offline insidebaseball

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    « Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 07:58:22 AM »
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  • This guy is great.  Is he still in the NO?  


    Offline LM

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    « Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 08:26:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cheryl
    Wasn't sure if I wanted to post this or not.  But having read the bashing of Real Catholic TV from the quotes of CAF forum members on the Plug CathInfo thread, I thought I'd let CI members judge for themselves if Real Catholic TV is bad.


    http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/GXFj8Vu-R-c


    I'd say Voris/RCTV  pick up the slack left by useless priests and bishops. The majority of the episodes are good, but once in a while Voris drops the ball.

    I also believe his integrity at exposing lies and falsehoods will only go so far.  There is a line he will not cross.  When exposing a heresy means it will reflect negatively on B16 and his predecessor because both have approved of it,  this is where Voris draws a line and the Faith be damned.  I'm speaking here of the Neocatechumenal Way heresy.  





    Offline Cheryl

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    « Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 08:28:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: insidebaseball
    This guy is great.  Is he still in the NO?  



    I do believe he is, but don't quote me on it.   He and his organization are based here in Michigan, Farmington Hills (I think I read somewhere.)

    The mind, a terrible thing to lose. :laugh1:

    Offline Cheryl

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    « Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 08:30:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: LM
    Quote from: Cheryl
    Wasn't sure if I wanted to post this or not.  But having read the bashing of Real Catholic TV from the quotes of CAF forum members on the Plug CathInfo thread, I thought I'd let CI members judge for themselves if Real Catholic TV is bad.


    http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/GXFj8Vu-R-c


    I also believe his integrity at exposing lies and falsehoods will only go so far.  There is a line he will not cross.  When exposing a heresy means it will reflect negatively on B16 and his predecessor because both have approved of it,  this is where Voris draws a line and the Faith be damned.  I'm speaking here of the Neocatechumenal Way heresy.  



    Well let's hope and pray he sees the Vatican 2 popes as they really are/were.


    Offline Arborman

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    « Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 09:06:37 AM »
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  • He won't see it.

    I am a premium member of his site, and he always defends the Pope, no matter what.  He says the Pope is a conservative and is trying to turn the church around.  The problem is with all the evil Bishops.  This is the same nonsense we heard about JPII.

    It makes me wonder about his true intentions.
    To Jesus thru Mary, for the greater glory of God.

    Offline insidebaseball

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    « Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 09:28:00 AM »
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  • I guess his connect the dot theries only go so far.  At least he could beg the guestion if he is honest.  But then he would probably be going to the sspx.

    Offline Cheryl

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    « Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 09:36:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: insidebaseball
    I guess his connect the dot theries only go so far.  At least he could beg the guestion if he is honest.  But then he would probably be going to the sspx.


    In the video Cultural Ghetto on the Real Catholic TV channel, he mentioned the TLM and how the Vatican didn't like it. This statement and others made me wonder if he's so upset with all the difficulties within the NO, why isn't he attending some kind of Traditional church/chapel?    


    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 09:51:19 AM »
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  • Voris is off beam. He has a very weird take on homosexuals.

    Offline Cheryl

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    « Reply #9 on: December 18, 2010, 09:58:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Voris is off beam. He has a very weird take on homosexuals.



    How so RC? :confused1:

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #10 on: December 18, 2010, 10:05:48 AM »
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  • Voris said that homosexuals are "more intimately loved by God." He thinks God
    predestined them to be homosexual "victim souls." Acoording to Voris homsoexuals
    are "a treasure beyond compare.... specially chosen by God."



    Michael Voris on Homosexuals as Victim Souls –
    A Response by Randy Engel

    Dear Friends – Once again I must take exception to Michael Voris’ recent presentation on homosexuals as victim souls which was released on September 24, 2010, under the heading “Homosexual persons ARE different, but in one way many people might not have thought about very much.”

    http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/K0sILSapUUc

    Voris notes in his opening statement that homosexuality is a topical issue today that needs to be addressed from a Catholic perspective. True enough.

               

    He then states that Catholics all know the Church’s teaching (on homosexuality). This is not true.

               

    Other than  perhaps a vague recollection of God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by brimstone and fire in punishment for the unnatural sins of their inhabitants as recorded in the Old Testament in Genesis 19:24, most Catholics are woefully ignorant of the Church’s teachings on homosexuality (and its hand-maiden, pederasty), especially from a historical perspective.

               

    For example, up until the summer of 2002 when Catholic Family News ran my series on St. Peter Damian’s Book of Gomorrah, an eleventh century treatise on clerical sodomy and pederasty in the Roman Catholic Church, very few Catholics were aware that such a work even existed. Since Voris has singled out the spiritual aspect of homosexuality, I think it relevant to cite a short except from St. Damian’s views on the innate malice of the vice of sodomy which he believed surpassed the enormity of all other vices:  

     

    Without fail it brings death to the body and destruction to the soul. It pollutes the flesh, extinguishes the light of the mind, expels the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human heart, and gives entrance to the devil, the stimulator of lust. … It opens up hell and closes the gates of paradise. …This vice excludes a man from the assembled choir of the Church. …This disease erodes the foundation of faith, saps the vitality of hope, dissolves the bond of love. It makes away with justice, demolishes fortitude, removes temperance, and blunts the edge of prudence. Shall I say more? *

     

                   

    One of the major themes of Voris’ presentation is that homosexuals not only feel different, but they are different, and that this difference, is a source of incomprehensible suffering for them. We are told that this “suffering,” this “cross” they bear, “must” engender the understanding and compassion of “non-homosexual persons.”  

               

    To which I reply that the homosexual who, by definition, is sexually attracted to and desires sexual relations with his or her own sex, is indeed “different,” but in a decidedly abnormal and perverse way.

     

    Heterosexuality is instinctive in man. It is the biological norm for the human species. Unless interfered with, man is heterosexual in his essential nature. All men, including homosexuals, consciously or unconsciously, strive toward heterosexuality, that is to say, towards normalcy.

               

    The real “difference” a homosexual experiences applies not only to his deviant choice of sexual objects, but to his heavily metastasized personality which is marked by neurotic, masochistic tendencies that are manifested in an array of phobias, obsessions and other sexual and emotional aberrations. The habituated homosexual drowns himself in a sea of self-pity/self dramatization fed by a self-created daily ritual of “injustice collecting.” His deviant behavior is characterized by markers common to all sexual perversions – compulsion, fixity, aggression, narcissism, risk-taking, unresolved conflict, fantasy and the denial and remaking of reality, strong feelings of guilt and hate, and a graduated perversity. In addition, the anti-culture in which he finds himself is dominated by illicit drugs, pornography, prostitution, suicide, and domestic violence including murder.  

     

    Voris goes on to lament that unlike eligible heterosexuals, “a homosexual faithful Catholic” … cannot get married because he or she desires the same level of intimacy, but cannot even entertain it.”

               

    That’s correct. So where’s the beef?

               

    Marriage is between one woman and one man. It was instituted by God in Paradise in order that the human species might perpetuate itself and that the husband and wife should be cooperators with God in bringing forth new life – immortal souls to populate the heavens and, thereby, give glory to the Creator. Two men or two women who wish to “marry” each other just don’t cut it.  And, if they were indeed “homosexual faithful Catholics” they would not even “entertain” such a perverted idea so obviously opposed to the Natural Law.    

     

    Please take note also of Voris’ erroneous use of the word “intimacy” in connection with homosexuality. Such usage reveals either a debilitating degree of naïveté or a deliberate attempt to deceive the listener.

     

    Homosexual acts can never be described as “intimate,” nor can they ever be described in any language remotely resembling terms that are used to describe the conjugal act whereby completeness and wholeness are achieved by the reconciliation of complementary beings and “two become one flesh.”

     

    The homosexual is not a “lover.” He is a sexual consumer. Homosex is profoundly narcissistic and selfish. Genital body parts are joined or stimulated, but there is no sense of communion, unity and oneness that characterizes the mature and loving marital embrace. Sodomy and fellatio are particularly degrading and violent practices.

     

    The homosexual lives in a fantasy land. He likes to play house and even pretend “marriage.” It is only when he is willing to trade in his fantasies for reality that his  healing and movement toward psychic, spiritual and emotional wellness can begin. Voris’ sentimentalization of the plight of the homosexual contributes nothing towards this reparative process. Indeed it does just the opposite.  

     

    For example, Voris tells us that part of the homosexual’s “sufferings” include “the internal quiet pain of knowing, that in many cases, this is simply their lot.”

     

    Sexual perversions, however, are no one’s “lot,” not while there exists an all powerful and merciful God who desires our salvation and offers mankind, through His One, Holy and Apostolic Church, the Sacramental means, especially the Sacraments of Penance and the Holy Eucharist, by which man can conquer his sinful passions. There is no sin, however grave, that God does not forgive, providing the penitent, by his acts of contrition, confession and satisfaction desires to be forgiven and make reparation, and he expresses his belief in the saving power of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins that we might attain eternal glory with Him in heaven.

     

    There have also been many advances in reparative therapy in recent years which offer homosexuals additional hope for recovery – whole or partial – thus opening the door for a normal conjugal life for those who wish to marry and have children, or the promise of living out the single life in accordance with God’s ordinances.

     

    Combine all these elements with the support of parents, relatives and friends who are correctly informed as to the true nature of the homosexual condition and struggle, and there is cause for optimism, especially when the homosexual himself is highly motivated.    

     

    Finally we come to the main theme of Voris’ presentation – homosexuals as victim souls.

     

    Although it is not a term to be found in official Church teachings, unofficially, “victim souls” refers to souls especially chosen by God to imitate Our Lord’s Passion in a unique way, and who by their voluntary sufferings, trials and sacrifices make amends for sinners and their ingratitude in order that they, the sinners, can receive God’s mercy. In a certain sense, all baptized persons are called upon to offer up their sufferings and trials by virtue of Our Lord’s command to take up one’s cross and follow Him. But the true victim soul is special in that the specific invitation to accept this extraordinary grace is said to come directly from God.  

     

    In his opening statement, Voris selects Bl. Mother Teresa, Saint John of the Cross, and especially Our Blessed Mother, as examples of victim souls who suffered greatly in their quest for the salvation of souls.

     

    Voris then returns to his opening theme regarding the hardships of being different, of loneliness and not belonging, the buffeting from external temptations and other “crosses” to which homosexuals are exposed, and he offers the following solution – become victim souls:  

     

    So he is different. He must approach life from an entirely different aspect from most others – that of the victim soul. He is different. He is a treasure beyond compare from the God who brought him forth and crafted his cross for him to the circumstances of a fallen and sinful world. He is different. His cross if accepted, unlike that of many other people’s crosses, will draw countless souls to Christ. …  

     

    I do not know, but I suspect that some point in their lives, many such souls actually come to the intuition that God has specially chosen them to be instruments of salvation like few others have been chosen.   And as a result they actually glory in their cross.    

         

                Are we to understand from Voris’ statement that he holds God responsible for laying the cross of homosexuality on particular souls, in order that they may become victim souls and thus attain salvation for themselves and draw others to Christ? If so, then Voris is guilty of blasphemy. No man is born a sexual pervert by the will of God that good may come of it.  

     

    Homosexuality, like all sexual perversions, is an acquired vice the seeds of which are usually planted early in life. Probable causes include disturbed family patterns and parental psychopathology; premature sexual seduction; infantile sexual fixations; and gender identity conflicts. Once the individual becomes habituated to the vice and crosses over the line to the forbidden and perverse, his struggle to free himself from the vice becomes more difficult. Nevertheless, in each and every case, the homosexual is faced with a choice to engage in or reject deviant behavior – a moral choice to do good and avoid evil. In this, he is no “different” than any other sinner who has ever walked the face of the earth.  

     

    For the record, in the 17 years that this writer spent in conducting research for The Rite of Sodomy** which included an in depth investigation of homosexual “spirituality” (New Ageism, the Occult, Satanism, Theosophy, Queer Christian Theology, etc.) I never saw a scintilla of evidence to support Voris’ theories on homosexuals as victim souls.

     

    I have, however, been privileged to communicate with Catholic men and women with a history of same-sex relationships, who, by the grace of God, and after a long and difficult struggle, have become models of Christian charity and humility.

     

    From my conversations with these individuals, I know that many do, in fact, offer up their sufferings to Our Lord in reparation for the sins of the world, especially sins against the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. But I have yet to hear any express a desire for extraordinary divine phenomena such as becoming a true victim soul since these gifts are rare and they depend solely on the free and supreme will of God.

     

    Voris was wrong when he sought to promote the money/power cult of Opus Dei as the answer to the Church’s problems.  

     

    I believe that he is equally ill advised in his promotion of the idea of the victim soul as an answer to Catholics caught up in the vice of sodomy who wish to extricate themselves in order to follow Christ more closely and advance in the spiritual life.  

     

    I leave the reader with this warning from the pen of Alexander Pope:

     

    Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,

    As to be hated needs but to be seen;

    Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,

    We first endure, then pity, then embrace.

     

     

                                                                                        Randy Engel, Director

                                                                                        U.S. Coalition for Life

                                                                                        October 4, 2010

     

    * CFN series on the Book of Gomorrah  is available at

    http://www.riteofsodomy.com/index.php?pr=eBooks.

         

        ** The Rite of Sodomy is available at

               http://www.riteofsodomy.com/index.php?pr=Paperbacks.



    Offline Cheryl

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    « Reply #11 on: December 18, 2010, 10:12:54 AM »
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  • Thanks for the info RC!  My reply about the info (apologizing to forum members first), that's some messed up sh**!


    It's so messed up, and no I'm not gossiping, It makes me wonder if Mr. Vois isn't in the closet (non-practicing) of course.



    Offline LM

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    « Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 10:19:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Arborman
    He won't see it.

    I am a premium member of his site, and he always defends the Pope, no matter what.  He says the Pope is a conservative and is trying to turn the church around.  The problem is with all the evil Bishops.  This is the same nonsense we heard about JPII.

    It makes me wonder about his true intentions.


    Considering the many, many hours RCTV claims to put into investigative research to expose the lies and falsehoods, it is highly unlikely a valid claim can be made, that they have not come across the Neocat heresy.

    To protect the Pope(s) sweep it under the rug, or come up with something to make people believe that this heresy is not possible would be the modus operandi.

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    « Reply #13 on: December 18, 2010, 10:25:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cheryl
    Thanks for the info RC!  My reply about the info (apologizing to forum members first), that's some messed up sh**!





    You're welcome, Cheryl.

    Yes, I was being reserved when I said he has a weird take on the subject. His twisted take is beyond weird!

    Offline Crusading Canuk

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    « Reply #14 on: December 18, 2010, 09:43:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: insidebaseball
    This guy is great.  Is he still in the NO?  


    No, this is his program on the Tridentine Mass and novus Ordo


     

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