Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Nishant Xavier on April 24, 2019, 01:29:34 AM
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His Excellency Bishop Fellay has many critics here, but H.E. is a worthy successor of Archbishop Lefebvre. An article from One Peter Five and Damsel of the Faith below.
"An example of Bishop Fellay’s saintliness
From: https://damselofthefaith.wordpress.com/2016/11/26/an-example-of-bishop-fellays-saintliness/ (https://damselofthefaith.wordpress.com/2016/11/26/an-example-of-bishop-fellays-saintliness/)
(https://damselofthefaith.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/8c559-fellay-ready.jpg?w=378&h=488)
Bishop Fellay is such a saintly bishop and priest. Despite the pain of a broken foot, he keeps up his good cheer and is a saintly example of joyful suffering to all of the Faithful. Read this story of a true shepherd of souls:
http://www.onepeterfive.com/bishop-bernard-fellays-authentic-catholic-witness/ (http://www.onepeterfive.com/bishop-bernard-fellays-authentic-catholic-witness/)
On 4 November, 2016 – the day of the opening ceremony (http://www.dici.org/en/news/usa-the-great-day-2000-faithful-attend-the-opening-of-the-new-seminary/) of the new seminary of the Society of St. Pius X in Dillwyn, Virginia – three little children were blessed to be confirmed by His Excellency Bishop Bernard Fellay. Everything surrounding this little ceremony – with some twenty priests, seminarians and different family members gathered around – turned an otherwise small event into something very big and holy. Each individual who was present there will no doubt count it as one of the great blessings of his life.
As with so many such blessings, it started with a cross. The confirmations were to start in the evening, at 6:30 pm, after the long opening ceremony for the seminary. The small group of families, sponsors, and seminarians was gathered around in the provisional chapel of the seminary (which shall one day be replaced by a larger, more beautiful church adjacent to the seminary) when suddenly a seminarian walked up the aisle, stood in front of the faithful, and told them that Bishop Fellay just had had an accident, and that he had injured his foot. Some medical experts were just then examining him, the seminarian said. We were to wait another thirty minutes in order to be further instructed. As it turned out, we waited an hour or so, not knowing whether the ceremony would take place at all.
It was around eight o’clock in the evening that the seminarian came one last time (after several updates) into the chapel. Since the bishop could not walk, we were invited upstairs to the private chambers of His Excellency so that he could help the Little Ones become Christian Soldiers. When all had gathered in a modest little room, Bishop Fellay came in to greet us. Nobody who was in that room is likely to forget what happened next: Bishop Fellay came in, with his as yet untreated foot – which turned out to have been seriously broken – on crutches, and with a big smile on his face! After first apologizing for the “inconvenience” (!) his injury had caused, Fellay then suddenly said, with an even bigger smile: “This is a very good sign! It is a very good sign, because it shows that the devil is very angry that these little children receive the Sacrament of Confirmation!”
The faithful present were astonished. How was it that this holy man smiled through the pain of a broken foot and yet rejoiced over obstacles put into his way? (One lady present said later that she had once had a broken foot; she confessed that she was not able to sleep all night because of how much it hurt.) And how was it that he ignored his suffering and did not allow such obstacles to hinder him from performing what might have otherwise be seen as only a small ceremony for just three children?
It was not much later that we were given a little more insight into Bishop Fellay’s deeply rooted conviction and principles. As soon as he was able to perform the ceremony – he had to be seated carefully – his eyes lit up even more. He completely focused his attention on the little children, looking only into their eyes – and quite intensely so – in order to explain to them the greatness of the Sacrament of Confirmation. His eyes were radiant and glowing when he explained to the children with words they could understand what they were about to receive. The warmth of his gaze toward the little ones was touching, as were his smile and tone of voice. It was quite a witness to us adults, seeing how a man of his stature paid no heed whatsoever to the adults around him, and how he gave his best to prepare the hearts of the little ones for the sacrament, and in a language that they might understand. Bishop Fellay had no prepared remarks, yet he cheerfully and with great concentration spoke for about twenty minutes or so, in what was for him a foreign language, and all without any sign of rushing or impatience. He was fully present for the children, acting as a supreme pastor for their souls.
Thankfully, I was able to record most of what His Excellency said. I received permission to make use of the transcript I have produced of those remarks in order to spread to as many Catholics as possible the radiant depiction of this channel of grace and a glimpse of the abundant graces we received that night in a bare room, in the twilight. The words speak for themselves and will bring us all back to the foundations of our beloved Faith. Here now the transcript which I have produced to the best of my ability:
For the rest: http://www.onepeterfive.com/bishop-bernard-fellays-authentic-catholic-witness/ (http://www.onepeterfive.com/bishop-bernard-fellays-authentic-catholic-witness/) The Actual Sermon:
[/color][/font][/size][/color]His Excellency, Bishop Bernard Fellay:
[A few introductory sentences are missing at the beginning where His Excellency introduces the theme of the Sacraments.] All the Sacraments, God wanted them, and He did institute all of them. Now, when God does something, it means it is important. And you know that Confirmation, you receive it only once in your life. You receive it only once in your life because it is going to give you something which you will never lose. Whatever will happen to you, you will have it. It is a mark. The Holy Ghost will come into your soul today and will mark your soul. This mark does not go away. You see, there are other things which God has given to us, that we would call a Grace. Unfortunately, the people who are in mortal sin, they lose this Grace; this mark [this sacramental “character”], they don’t lose.
This mark is going to consecrate you to the Holy Ghost. Consecrated things are made holy, like a bell, like a ciborium, like an altar – when they are consecrated, they are made holy. And this is going to happen, at the very moment when the bishop is going to make a cross on your forehead. At the same time, I will say: “I sign you with the sign of the Cross.” That is exactly what we call a Sacrament. It is a visible sign, you can see, you can hear, but the sign indicates something else.
The difference between the Sacrament and the other signs: the other signs just indicate something. When you are on the road, and you see “Richmond, so many miles,” you know that when you go that way, you will get to Richmond. But these signs don’t change things.
The Sacraments. When you have here the sign, they will not only indicate something, but they will produce things. So, we have the sign, outside, and in your soul, at that moment, this mark – you see the mark, the sign of the Cross is a mark, and the words “I mark you with the sign of the Cross” these are words which are the same – then you have a sign in your soul. You receive this sign, this mark.
This mark is very special. It is, as I said, consecrating you, it is making out of you an instrument in the hands of the Holy Ghost. But it is a different instrument than the ones that I use as a tool. You use, for example, a pencil, that is, an instrument which allows you to write. A knife is an instrument that allows you to cut. A car is an instrument that allows you to drive. But you see, all of these instruments, they simply obey. If you take the pencil into your hand, you move it, that is it. The pencil is very docile. I have never seen a pencil which runs away so that one has to grab it. That does not exist, it is very docile.
We are instruments that are free. That is, we are instruments that can still move, and that is very special. And we will call it “instrument” because the agent – which is the Holy Ghost – will use even your free will to do the thing. And what thing does He do? (Pause. Continues slowly:) Ah. He joins you, or He makes you sink into the Mission of Jesus. Jesus has a mission. What does it mean, “mission”? We have a mission when somebody sends us to do something. And God the Father sent God the Son to save us. This is so true that the name He received from the Father is Jesus. Jesus means “Savior”. It expresses the mission of Jesus Our Lord. And He became flesh and assumed the human nature with which He was able to do His mission. And He died on the Cross. That is the way He saved us.
Now, before going back to Heaven, He transmitted His mission to the Apostles, to the Church. The Church is Jesus, but not Jesus on His own, but Jesus with the souls united with Himself through Baptism. With the greatness of Confirmation comes this very special call from Our Lord. He is calling you. He wants you to help Him. He does not need your help, if He wants it to save souls. Precisely this character will put you into this mission. That is why we call you from that moment on Soldier of Christ, because to save souls means fight. Why fight? Because the devil will do whatever he can to prevent souls from going to Heaven. So, those who will have to help Jesus will have to fight. You see, that is why you are soldiers. But you must not fear, because He is going to give you all the strength you need.
That is the second part of Confirmation. I say second, but all of it is happening at the same time. So this gives you a mark, it gives you a mission, and now He is going to put into you an incredible strength.
First, He is going to increase what we call the Sanctifying Grace. That which we have received in Baptism. Sanctifying Grace. What does it mean sanctifying? “Sancti” means saints, “fying” means to make. To make saints. The Grace that makes a saint. You received it at Baptism. That is why, without Grace, if you die, you go to hell. Only those who have it can go to Heaven. In Heaven, there are only saints. But there are degrees. They have more or less so that those with more Grace will have a nicer place in Heaven. And today, He wants to increase how much the level with which you started at Baptism? Three times? Ten times? One hundred times?
We don’t have words to say it. There is only one word we know. And the word is: fullness. Fullness that makes your soul filled. [short interruption of recording] There are ways for us to grasp this. I can give you one, but that is not enough. You see the difference between the moon and the sun. The moon is giving some light that you can look at it without being bothered. The sun is giving so much light that you cannot look at it, you would hurt your eyes. So, there is an increase in light between them both. That is an example for an increase of Grace that you will receive today. That means you will increase much more, much more in Grace. I will say this for you: for God, one Confirmation is something greater than the creation of all the creatures – all the stars, all these moons, planets, all the animals on earth, and so on. God, when He was doing that, He was doing less than what He is doing with one Confirmation. It is difficult to understand, but it is true.
So, He will give you an enormous increase in Grace. Now you have to understand that on the same level, He is going to increase all of your virtues, in the same proportion, you will receive an increase in Faith, Hope, Charity, Justice, Temperance, all the virtues now elevated in one person, like this (lifts his arms into the air). You are going to make progress, a great progress. The problem is you are not going to feel it. You cannot feel it because it is too high, too high for our means of measuring. It is only the Faith which tells us that. You see, when we talk about Confirmation, we hardly say a word about that. We insist upon one point, which we call the Gifts of the Holy Ghost. Because, there is something we have already received in Baptism, also, but the enormous jump in these [Seven Gifts]. So now, what are these going to do? The Gifts will make you docile, docile to the inspirations of the Holy Ghost. You see, as Saint Paul says it to us, it is very wonderful, those who are moved by the spirit of God are children of God. So you want to be children of God. For that we need that God moves us. [Short interruption of recording]
[So when we say God Our Father,] He is first in us, He helps us. He says it! He says it! And He grabs us, He puts us into this prayer. So every time you say “Our Father,” it is not you, it is He, the Holy Ghost who says it. He wants to help us, to help you. You don’t see it. You see, we have different examples of this. For example, Saint Paul says no soul can say “Jesus is God,” “Jesus is the Lord,” nobody can say “Jesus is the Lord,” if not in the Holy Ghost. So, every time we say “of course Jesus is God,” we say it because the Holy Ghost is pushing us to say it. So, every time we say “Our Father,” remember that He is putting that into you. Because He is the one who is in charge, with the Father and the Son, to make you children of God.
Now I will describe to you quickly what happens to you when you follow these inspirations. Suddenly, you have in your mind a good idea. You are doing [something] – whatever you do – suddenly there is this idea. We call that an inspiration. It is an invitation to do something good. It can be a prayer, a sacrifice, to do your duty, it can be at play or at work, to be fair, don’t be bad, it can be anything; don’t say a bad word; help Mom; do your homework; any kind of good idea!
And when you follow – when you have that idea and you say, okay, I am going to do it! – (and sometimes you say: no, I am not going to do it; sometimes there is a little bit of a fight in us and you say no, I don’t do it). But sometimes, we just do it. And when you do it, you are not alone. I am giving you an example. I give you a pencil. And I say: “Now, you make a drawing.” You then make your drawing. You take a pencil and you try to make a drawing. That’s once. That’s when YOU do it.
Now, let’s suppose, you get the pencil, a paper, and we have a tremendous artist who comes by. You are going to say: do help me do it. He grabs your hand which holds the pencil, then leads your hand, with the pencil, on the paper. This time, as far as you follow this slightest movement of the artist, you have a masterpiece. It is the Holy Ghost who did it! Leading you. So, every time, you just follow the inspiration, the Holy Ghost is doing a marvel. Can you grasp that? You have the impression that you do it, but as long as you stay a friend of His inspirations, what is happening is a masterpiece.
So, that is why these Gifts are so important. The Holy Ghost will come today to you, wants to make out of all of your actions a masterpiece. He wants to make you beautiful! As Saint Paul says – and so it is in the Holy Scriptures – God tells us what He wants us to do, and he says it this way: the Holy Ghost wants us to grow in the shining living image of the Son of God. So, He wants us to grow from the shining of the moon to the shining of the sun – or even more! And He does the job, as long as we just follow.
That is all, that is the major part of the Sacrament you are about to receive.
So, we ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Spouse of the Holy Ghost, that she may help you, prepare you to receive the Sacrament the best you can. We ask also for the Grace for you – but also for those who are present here – that is, that all of us, we may be always faithful to the inspirations of the Holy Ghost, so that every day, we may really grow, as real children of God – not children of this world – that this will lead our souls, many souls, to God, to Heaven, that we may save souls.
So, the ceremony, we will start this way: First, we will ask for the Gifts of the Holy Ghost, and every time we ask with “Amen”. And then the second part, you will come here, where I am sitting, and we will have Confirmation here, you will be accompanied by your sponsor, who will put his right hand on your right shoulder, and you will kneel down here, we anoint you, and then afterward the ceremony, you will go over there to have Father remove the Chrism from your forehead, and then you will go back to your place. And then there is another prayer, and I will give you the blessing, and then we will pray the Profession of Faith.
Now let us start with the first prayer…
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I rather saw the opposite:
That on the day Bishop Fellay was to dedicate the unnecessary $150 million seminary, Providence spoke by this accident, and in breaking his foot, tried to slow his leftward drift into apostate Rome.
And wasn’t it also on this occasion that he was interviewed by Fr. Kevin Cusick (conciliar Priest), to whom he told we need to learn to “agree to disagree” on the disputed points of Vatican II?
Can you direct me to the part wherein you see holiness again?
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It is spiritually immature to canonize any living person as a saint. This isn't catholic thinking and none of the real saints, when they were living, ever endorsed this activity; they actively fought against it and corrected people about it.
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Made an account just to comment on this post. This is one of the most ridiculous articles I’ve seen in a while. If this is indeed the type of thinking that they’re teaching at the Society’s seminaries now, then the society is doomed.
Being able to struggle through a confirmation ceremony with a broken foot is nothing without doctrine. this article is mush, baby food...
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XavierSem is nothing but an messed-up bag of emotion. He has shown little evidence of independently-functioning intellectual capability. If I were rector, I would disqualify this man from the priesthood for his excessive emotionalism.
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A saint would not boot out faithful Catholics from the SSPX, such as Bp. Williamson, the Dominicans of Avrille, and many others.
I don't expect the neo-trads on IP5 to understand that at all. They wouldn't even try to understand it.
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XavierSem is nothing but an messed-up bag of emotion. He has shown little evidence of independently-functioning intellectual capability. If I were rector, I would disqualify this man from the priesthood for his excessive emotionalism.
Sorry if I didn’t get the quote function right, I’m new to the forum, but this is spot on.
Right from the early days of the society, there’s have always been priests and seminarians who haven’t really grasped what the Archbishop was really about. Now that we’re a few decades removed from the Archbishop, the problem has and will continue to get worse.
I believe that some of the ‘greats’ from the early years of the SSPX would never be ordained, or possibly even be tonsured, in this day.
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Can you direct me to the part wherein you see holiness again?
Ok, but it's not just me, but several others who saw holiness in this incident as well, as the websites given docuмent. Many regarded Archbishop Lefebvre also as a living Saint, even a Priest who didn't fully agree with the Saintly Archbishop venerated him and used to say, “His face radiated holiness, and after meeting him I understood why artists portrayed saints with a halo.” https://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2018/06/22/archbishop-lefebvres-sermon-at-lille-france-30-years-ago/ (https://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2018/06/22/archbishop-lefebvres-sermon-at-lille-france-30-years-ago/)
Fr. Garrigou Lagrange enlists certain signs of predestination, "The Fathers, especially John Chrysostom, Augustine, Gregory the Great, Bernard, and Anselm, according to certain statements of Holy Scripture, pointed out several signs of predestination often enumerated by the theologians as follows: (1) a good life; (2) the testimony of a conscience that is free from serious sins and prepared rather to die than offend God grievously; (3) patience in adversities endured for the love of God; ..." The 3rd is what is manifested in Bp. Fellay here, which is why he justly wins the veneration of so many of the faithful, for being a good shepherd to the flock.
Which part? This especially, "The faithful present were astonished. How was it that this holy man smiled through the pain of a broken foot and yet rejoiced over obstacles put into his way? (One lady present said later that she had once had a broken foot; she confessed that she was not able to sleep all night because of how much it hurt.) And how was it that he ignored his suffering and did not allow such obstacles to hinder him from performing what might have otherwise be seen as only a small ceremony for just three children?
It was not much later that we were given a little more insight into Bishop Fellay’s deeply rooted conviction and principles. As soon as he was able to perform the ceremony – he had to be seated carefully – his eyes lit up even more. He completely focused his attention on the little children, looking only into their eyes – and quite intensely so – in order to explain to them the greatness of the Sacrament of Confirmation. His eyes were radiant and glowing when he explained to the children with words they could understand what they were about to receive. The warmth of his gaze toward the little ones was touching, as were his smile and tone of voice. It was quite a witness to us adults, seeing how a man of his stature paid no heed whatsoever to the adults around him, and how he gave his best to prepare the hearts of the little ones for the sacrament, and in a language that they might understand. Bishop Fellay had no prepared remarks, yet he cheerfully and with great concentration spoke for about twenty minutes or so, in what was for him a foreign language, and all without any sign of rushing or impatience. He was fully present for the children, acting as a supreme pastor for their souls."
I believe the first site is run by a spiritual daughter of Archbishop Lefebvre. One Peter Five are Catholics who are becoming increasingly traditional mainly because of seeing good fruits and authentic Traditional Catholic witness in Bishop Fellay and others like him. They recently hosted this article, despite some criticism after it, "PRIESTS: If you still offer the Novus Ordo, it’s time to stop. The wind is changing. Return your flocks to the objective liturgical tradition of the Church; render to God the worship owed to Him, and render to the faithful what is theirs by right: that timeless treasury of ars celebrandi and the countless graces of our priceless heritage in the traditional Mass. If you don’t know it, learn it. Start today. We know that you may suffer for this, but the faithful remaining through the growing darkness are prepared to help you. And remember: you signed up for the Cross. You’re a priest. Your principal task is to render worthy sacrifice unto God. Regarding the cura animarum, right worship still remains the most significant of your duties toward the faithful – before parish programs, enrollment goals, and all else. If God’s children go hungry, deprived of that supernatural nourishment granted by a Mass grown organically over centuries of faithful devotion, it will be because you chose to feed them with a modernist construct designed by the faithless. Are you prepared to render an account for such withholding from God and His people?" and for the laity "Find an FSSP or ICKSP or other TLM community, and get over there." and "In fifty years, we have little doubt that the “traditional Latin Mass” (TLM) will once again be our dominant (if not exclusive, please God) liturgical practice around the globe. Indeed, this trend is already observable." (please see the site for the links on the trend) https://onepeterfive.com/pope-new-rite-youth-synod/ (https://onepeterfive.com/pope-new-rite-youth-synod/)
Providence spoke by this accident, and in breaking his foot
This is unprovable speculation. One can say the same thing about any misfortune that befalls any of us. No one can say for sure, without special revelation, that some Cross was directly from God. But bearing a Cross well is indeed a sign of predestination and a mark of sanctity.
Bishop Fellay mentioned another "signal grace" that the Blessed Virgin gave the Society recently. A man who was praying to Our Lady of Guadalupe, distressed over the crisis in the Church for many years, asked Her to lead him and and pleaded for a sign where to go. She led him to the SSPX, and on the Altar there was an image of Our Lady of Gaudalupe. He was thrilled and thanked Her for the Grace. This, I believe, was in 2015. Bishop Fellay mentioned it in a very recent sermon or interview. I believe I posted it here before. I'll try to find it later on. God has not left the SSPX by any means. The real way forward is for the Resistance to re-unite with the Society. Some of you made predictions years ago that the SSPX would be saying the new mass by now that has been proven wrong.
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It is spiritually immature to canonize any living person as a saint. This isn't catholic thinking
In the early Church, the first stage in a canonization was the universal or near-universal veneration of the Faithful. Many Saints were regarded as such in their lifetime. One who comes to mind is St. Francis, whose contemporaries indeed called him Saint.
This you can read in "The Little Flowers of Saint Francis" by Brother Ugolino https://www.ecatholic2000.com/ugolino/flower.shtml (https://www.ecatholic2000.com/ugolino/flower.shtml)
Being able to struggle through a confirmation ceremony with a broken foot is nothing without doctrine.
Bishop Fellay did not struggle through it, H.E. bore it manfully, made light of it cheerfully, and indeed also taught sound doctrine in the sermon. You can disagree if you wish, but His Excellency continues to give an excellent witness to Tradition, contrary to false predictions and absurd name-calling like "Judas" from the Resistance, and many are witnesses to it. After Judas sinned, God left him, Satan entered him. These are not the works of a man who allegedly lost the Grace of God, they are the works of a holy Bishop who has advanced much in that Grace of God.
A saint would not boot out faithful Catholics from the SSPX
I believe Bp. Williamson, the good Dominicans of Avrille (who recently wrote an article about regularization which, if not exactly the SSPX's position, at least comes to it and doesn't preclude it entirely) and other such good Bishops and Priests should be re-united with the Society, hopefully at, say, the next General Chapter. There's no reason that can't happen. You should see by now the claims of some people here that the SSPX is going to start saying clown masses has no basis in truth.
At the same time, you can't just condemn all your Superiors as heretics and modernists and what-not before the Faithful and then expect nobody to do anything. You're not the only Catholics in the world. If there are disagreements about the best way to proceed with Rome, they should be raised with one's Superior in an appropriate way. Otherwise, no religious order can function. Archbishop Lefebvre said a similar thing in 1983. And there is much basis in the Archbishop's actions for seeking an "as is" normalization with Rome.
The SSPX has not compromised. It is Traditional Roman Catholic ecclesiology to seek normal canonical relations with superiors in Rome. That is all. There are many Priests who have different opinions on the best way to proceed and have remained with the Society. It is a prudential matter. Even Bp. Williamson said, Bp. Fellay's idea of restoring Tradition in Rome and the wider Church from inside in theory is ok, but in practice H.E. says it won't work. So it's mainly a prudential disagreement. The SSPX believes it will work and will show it.
If I were rector...
Well, further taunts from you, but I forgive you for them, and wish you a happy and blessed life. I suppose I should thank God you're not rector; but God is my judge, not you, as are my Superiors. If you (general) want to live in a religious order, you must have deference to your Superiors in prudential matters, period. That is what Fr. Stehlin has said also. Otherwise, no order can function at all.
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You think the man who betrayed Tradition, destroyed the work of Archbishop Lefebvre, and handed it over like Benedict Arnold to its modernist enemies for destruction is a saint?
Because he broke his foot?
I would say that’s a pretty low bar for sanctity!
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Hm. I've manifested cheerfulness and long-suffering, lots of times. Every day--with ALL those children. Does that automatically make me a saint, too?
Hooray!!!
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I believe Bp. Williamson, the good Dominicans of Avrille (who recently wrote an article about regularization which, if not exactly the SSPX's position, at least comes to it and doesn't preclude it entirely) and other such good Bishops and Priests should be re-united with the Society, hopefully at, say, the next General Chapter. There's no reason that can't happen. You should see by now the claims of some people here that the SSPX is going to start saying clown masses has no basis in truth.
The recent article from the Dominicans of Avrille did not come close to the SSPX position regarding regularization. The article was defining terms. Did you read the entire article?
I've not seen anyone here saying that the SSPX will start saying clown masses. And if it has been said on the forum, it hardly reflects the view of those who support the Resistance (which you do not).
You must not have a good understanding of the Resistance if you think there's a chance or possibility that +W and the Avrille Dominicans will be re-united with the SSPX at the next general chapter. There is a reason why that can't happen. Unless, of course, the leadership of the SSPX comes to their senses and abandons their bid for reconciliation with Rome, and starts acting like true spiritual sons of +ABL, instead of traitors to +ABL. How likely is it that that will occur? They have set their course to Rome. They have abandoned +ABL and what he stood for.
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At the same time, you can't just condemn all your Superiors as heretics and modernists and what-not before the Faithful and then expect nobody to do anything. You're not the only Catholics in the world. If there are disagreements about the best way to proceed with Rome, they should be raised with one's Superior in an appropriate way. Otherwise, no religious order can function. Archbishop Lefebvre said a similar thing in 1983. And there is much basis in the Archbishop's actions for seeking an "as is" normalization with Rome.
Who has condemned Bp. Fellay as a modernist and heretic?
Bishop Williamson rightly raised the alarm about the actions of Bp. Fellay, in Bp. Fellay's effort to reconcile with MODERNIST Rome. The worst thing +W said, as I recall, is that Bp. Fellay needs to be replaced as Superior General. He was right about that. How do you know that Bp. Williamson didn't speak privately to Bp. Fellay about his concerns regarding the SSPX attempt to reconcile with Rome?
Bp. Fellay is a traitor to the legacy and work of Archbishop Lefebvre. Archbishop Lefebvre did not further seek any relationship or reconciliation with Rome after 1988. You already know that. He said, after 1988, that Rome is in apostasy. You need to be honest about +ABL, rather than parrot the same falsehoods that Bp. Fellay puts forth regarding +ABL.
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I rather saw the opposite:
That on the day Bishop Fellay was to dedicate the unnecessary $150 million seminary, Providence spoke by this accident, and in breaking his foot, tried to slow his leftward drift into apostate Rome.
And wasn’t it also on this occasion that he was interviewed by Fr. Kevin Cusick (conciliar Priest), to whom he told we need to learn to “agree to disagree” on the disputed points of Vatican II?
Can you direct me to the part wherein you see holiness again?
Did he really break his foot on the day the new seminary was dedicated?
I haven't heard this. That's incredible.
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Did he really break his foot on the day the new seminary was dedicated?
I haven't heard this. That's incredible.
Yes, he was there to bless the seminary:
https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/bishop-fellay-breaks-his-leg-at-new-seminary/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/bishop-fellay-breaks-his-leg-at-new-seminary/)
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Look, at the end of the day, the Truth will be known by the Fruits of the Apostolate. It's what the Lord God said also, "By their fruits you shall know them." (Mat 7:16) Where are the fruits of Father Pfeiffer, who was one of the heroes not that long ago in the Resistance? If you still follow Fr. Pfeiffer, as even some of you will admit, not only your Faith and your Soul are in danger but even your sanity. Can you really and honestly say the same is true in the Society?
I'm not the owner of 1 Peter 5, the fact of the matter is many people saw holiness in how Bp. Fellay bore it. You may disagree, but Bp. Fellay is bearing good fruit.
Meanwhile the SSPX goes from strength to strength. The Seminaries, the Convents and Monasteries are booming. Vocations are flourishing at a level scarcely seen in 3 decades. Cardinals and Bishops have said the salvation of the Church resides in the Society and in Catholic Tradition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-8zb0_NQ94
The SSPX continues its principal work, "In March, the SSPX seminaries in Argentina and Australia welcomed 15 candidates in the spirituality year. In all, 65 first-year seminarians will have entered in the year 2018: almost a record, since it has been more than thirty years since the numbers were this high." https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/large-number-first-year-seminarians-sspx-41279 see also: https://fsspx.news/en/news-events/news/priestly-ordinations-sspx-has-613-priests-23553
Whether you like it or not, whether you admit it or not, whether you believe it or not, Archbishop Lefebvre always said that this - precisely this - is what will ultimately win the battle for Tradition in the Church. "However, I think what counts much more are the facts, than the words or writings, even for Rome. What are the facts which count for us? The seminaries! To make priests! To make traditional priests, priests according to Tradition, to make good and holy priests in our seminaries. That is the work we must carry on with and the work which counts in Rome. Why does Rome still go on receiving me? Why do they still consider me with a certain respect? Because they know that I have seminaries, that I have now ordained nearly 200 priests since 1970 and that I have 250 seminarians in my seminaries (it's now something like 637 Priests and 334 Seminarians; the SSPX continues and will continue its principal mission, the Resistance attempts to tear it apart notwithstanding). They know that very well and that’s what counts at Rome. They no longer have any seminaries.
Their seminaries are empty or they are Modernist seminaries. Now they know that at Econe, at Ridgefield, at Zaitzkofen, and at Buenos Aires, we are forming true priests. They know that very well and they admire our young priests. So, that is what makes even more of an impression on them than my words, writings or meetings. They are well aware that this year I ordained thirty priests. So that’s what I think it is. And they are perfectly well aware that our priests are spread throughout the world. They know of the existence of our traditional groups throughout the world, and a little everywhere in the world. We are striving to extend. They know we have many priories in Europe, in all the European countries. They know, moreover, that there are other traditional priests, that we are not alone, that we support other traditional priests in their work. So all of that scares them a little. They are forced to reckon with us. And that is how I think we will succeed one day in convincing Rome that they must return to Tradition. They will say, we can no longer ignore these seminaries, these priests, not only the priests of the Society, but all traditionalist priests as well. We can no longer ignore them. That is the task before us, and I have never changed! ...
How can they now say, “The Archbishop is changing”? ... We have made no compromise with Rome. That charge is not true. So it is very sad to think that these priests who were ordained by myself and who, after all is said and done, receiving everything from Econe and the Society, should now be turning against the Society. Why? They say we are making compromises, they say we are going to accept the New Mass, they say things of this kind, which are absolutely false. You can see that for yourselves ... bring about a regrouping of the faithful staying with the Society, so that they keep their bond with Rome and with the Church. It is very important that there should always be the bond with Rome if we wish to remain Catholic; even if we do not agree with everything being done in Rome, I think the bond is absolutely indispensable." http://sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Conference_at_Long_Island.htm
The Resistance does precisely these two things which +ABL says should not be done (1) First, you falsely accuse the SSPX and say it is going to accept the New Mass, whereas the whole world sees that that is not true; (2) Second, you totally deny the Roman Catholic Doctrine that Roman Catholics must always retain some bond with Rome if we wish to remain Catholic, which +ABL taught us here. You think 1988 is a magic year, yet you ignore 1983 completely.
Hm. I've manifested cheerfulness and long-suffering, lots of times. Every day--with ALL those children. Does that automatically make me a saint, too?
Great! Keep it up! But then, nobody has been starting a Resistance movement against you predicated on the premise that you are a traitor, have they? So the two situations are not comparable, the Resistance claims Bishop Fellay is allegedly an evil "traitor" and grave sinner, if so, that would be shown by evil fruits in his life.
+ABL:"So, I trust you will remain faithful and that we will be able to continue working together for the greater good of the Church, because there is nothing more disastrous, even in the face of Rome, than these divisions, because these divisions weaken us and weaken our fight for Tradition. So, let us pray that everything will be sorted out." By unnecessarily taking away Priests and Religious from the SSPX from doing their duties together with their brother Priests and for the faithful, the resistance are causing, in ABL's words, something than which there is nothing more disastrous, because such divisions weaken us and weaken our fight for Tradition.
Meg, yes, I read the full article by the Dominicans of Avrille, understood their point and replied to it on that thread. You can take it up there if you wish to. And while there's no need to accept the false premise that none of Archbishop Lefebvre's words have any validity at all, except only those in the last 3 years of his life, even with that false premise, see the words of +ABL in 1990 on that thread.
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:facepalm:
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I believe Bp. Williamson, the good Dominicans of Avrille (who recently wrote an article about regularization which, if not exactly the SSPX's position, at least comes to it and doesn't preclude it entirely) and other such good Bishops and Priests should be re-united with the Society, hopefully at, say, the next General Chapter. There's no reason that can't happen. You should see by now the claims of some people here that the SSPX is going to start saying clown masses has no basis in truth.
At the same time, you can't just condemn all your Superiors as heretics and modernists and what-not before the Faithful and then expect nobody to do anything. You're not the only Catholics in the world. If there are disagreements about the best way to proceed with Rome, they should be raised with one's Superior in an appropriate way. Otherwise, no religious order can function. Archbishop Lefebvre said a similar thing in 1983. And there is much basis in the Archbishop's actions for seeking an "as is" normalization with Rome.
I'm sorry for my lack of computer skills...I haven't mastered the quote function yet.
You're living in a fantasy land. I haven't seen anyone associated with the Resistance seriously suggest that the problem lies with the SSPX "starting to say clown masses". If your litmus test for compromise is only triggered when clown masses start happening, you have your head in the sand. What you don't seem to recognize is that the most reverent N.O. in the world is substantially the same thing as a clown mass. A clown mass is simply the N.O. taken to its logical conclusion: a massive assault on the kingship of Christ, designed to undo the faith. So, for Bishop Fellay to suggest, as he did, that the new sacraments were 'legitimately promulgated' is already in and of itself a massive betrayal. Read the Society's attempts to explain this statement: they're absolutely laughable (Fr. Daniel Themann's comes to mind).
The fact that you, and many die hard SSPX'ers, think that problems only exist when the SSPX starts to "say clown Masses" is the definition of rose coloured glasses.
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"They no longer have any seminaries. "
The SSPX continues its principal work, "In March, the SSPX seminaries in Argentina and Australia welcomed 15 candidates in the spirituality year. In all, 65 first-year seminarians will have entered in the year 2018: almost a record, since it has been more than thirty years since the numbers were this high."
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This is a very dangerous way of thinking. Don't forget that we're talking about doctrine here. To suggest that the Society is spiritually and doctrinally sound simply because they're building fancy new seminaries and big chapels is flat out wrong. Remember that the Church was flourishing, materially speaking, in the 1950s, with healthy numbers of ordinations, full seminaries, packed parishes, so on a surface level everything was fine. But the fact is that for more than 30 years, much of the Church hierarchy had been progressively failing to recognize doctrinal errors which were slowly strangling the church, until less than 10 years later, the Church was in apostasy.
For the past 10 years (arguably more), the society has simply failed to sufficiently sound the alarm bells as concerns Vatican II and the NewChurch. Go to most of the Masses and walk around the seminary grounds and you'd think everything is healthy, but you've been hoodwinked, unfortunately. Your argument that the Resistance will fail because they 'have no seminaries' is sad. Tradition is not a numbers game, and it never has been. Trads who have been in this fight for the long haul will understand this well. When the SSPX falls, God will use another means in order to save souls.
Your belief that +Williamson will be reconciled to the Society tells me that you're an optimist, but it also shows that you don't fully grasp what either +Williamson, or +Lefebvre was about. Riddle me this, why was +Williamson cast out of the Society in the first place? I guarantee that if you read through his Rector's letters, starting from 1981 all the way until the end, you'll see that he changed literally NOTHING in any of his positions. He was cast out because he was a thorn in Menzingen's side, who had been seeking aggiornamento with the newchurch since at least 2001. The only possible way that +Williamson could be reconciled with the Society at this point would be for the Society to come grovelling back to him. When you have the truth, you're in the driver's seat, you don't need to 'barter' and negotiate for the truth.
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In 2018, Econe ordained only 3 priests.
I believe that is an all-time low.
https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/june-ordinations-16-priests-be-ordained-sspx-seminaries-month-38611 (https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/june-ordinations-16-priests-be-ordained-sspx-seminaries-month-38611)
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Good Archbishop Lefebvre quote about liberals:
"Catholic liberals have kept on saying that their will for Tradition is equivalent to that of most intransigent persons. The compromise they have sought is not theoretical but practical....They always come back to this reasoning. They are telling us: 'See, we are shepherds. We accept the reality, we are concrete people, we are practical!' But what is this practice? The practice is the implementation of principles with the help of the virtue of prudence, it is nothing other than that.
"What is the practice when the principles are missing?...'Yes, yes, yes, we agree, we share the same Credo, etcetera. Yes, but when we find ourselves in the world, then one must adjust oneself to the level of the others, one must live with the others, if not, you will never convert others.' To say this is a total error!...Popes have perceived the danger of those Catholics that are elusive because they claim, when one wants to corner them: 'No, no, I agree.' But afterwards, they come to terms with the enemies of the Church...they are traitors...more dreadful than avowed enemies...they divide the minds, destroy unity, weaken strengths that, instead, should be all together coordinated against the enemy...You will be told that it is you who cause division, but it is not possible to divide when one abides in the Truth...those who divide are those who try to diminish the Truth in order to find agreement with everyone...Those who have it wrong must convert to the Truth and should not try to find common grounds between Truth and error..." (Abp. Lefebvre, Spiritual Conference, Econe, Jan. 1974).
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The fact is that the Archbishop was a human being, and an incredibly holy one. He always sought to see the best in people, and the same went for Rome and the newpopes. For decades, he held out hope that things would get better, as any Catholic should have done. Once it became apparent, particularly at Assisi, that the Romans were interested primarily in smashing the First Commandment and making war on the Faith, the Archbishop realized that collaboration would be impossible.
Justifying the relentless pursuit of an agreement by using the Archbishop's careful negotiations throughout the 70s and 80s is capitalizing on his good will. He was a man of good will, but also smart enough to recognize that by 1988, the gulf between the newchurch and the Society was so large that an agreement was simply not possible, even if offered carte blanche, doctrinal conditions aside. The argument that the Society is just fine simply because they're doing what the Archbishop did is unacceptable.
The archbishop was testing the waters throughout the 1970s. Assisi hadn't happened yet, and a bunch of other events hadn't taken place. The circuмstances were a little different. The were still (a few) cardinals and bishops who seemed genuinely sympathetic towards tradition. These cardinals died, or simply changed their positions, and the newpopes continued their destruction of the Church. I'm sorry, but your argument is very disengenuous, and again, demonstrates that you don't really understand what the Archbishop was about.
'Oh, Archbishop Lefebvre met with rome in the 1970s so therefore the Society has the obligation to resume negotiations in 2019' is the epitome of wishful thinking.
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'Oh, Archbishop Lefebvre met with rome in the 1970s so therefore the Society has the obligation to resume negotiations in 2019' is the epitome of wishful thinking.
It's also the epitome of modernism. True Catholic Faith teaches us that the only true unity is unity in doctrine. Modernists think we can create heaven on earth by getting along and agreeing to disagree. That's exactly the point of a practical agreement. Pure modernism. It sounds nice but that's about as profound as it gets. It's completely illogical underneath.
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This is a very dangerous way of thinking. Don't forget that we're talking about doctrine here. To suggest that the Society is spiritually and doctrinally sound simply because they're building fancy new seminaries and big chapels is flat out wrong.
Glad you raised this point. You may have missed the earlier thread where I called him out for PRECISELY THIS. I asked him, given his theological positions, what reason does he have of being with the SSPX rather than in full communion with Rome in the FSSP? I told him that he would have to have serious theological reasons, reasons of conscience, to justify this to absolve him from schism. His answer then was the same, that it was essentially due to the size of the SSPX's seminary.