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Offline OHCA

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Re: Amoris Laetitia
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2017, 11:33:56 PM »
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  • f responding to the Church’s call to continence is not possible, then “although they cannot receive Holy Communion, we must accompany them and exhort them to cultivate a style of Christian life, since they continue to belong to the Church.” Bishop Martinez explained that such persons are not to be abandoned, but to be prayed for and encouraged. He repeated the invitation of St. John Paul II that they listen to God's word, pray, and attend Mass.
    For those unable to live according to the Church’s call, Bishop Martinez encouraged the practice of adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, noting that the Diocese of San Luis has 12 adoration chapels which they could frequent, where they should be “accompanied to commence a path of growth in prayer, in adoration of the Eucharistic Jesus. The Sacred Heart of Jesus will work wonders in them, because he waits for everyone, to say to them as the Good Shepherd: 'Come to me, all you who are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest'.”

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/argentine-pastoral-letter-accompaniment-in-marriage-must-be-faithful-28749

    It is important to note that the bishop here is using Amoris Laetitae to restate the time honored doctrine that those who are living in sin cannot receive Holy Communion.
    "If responding to the Church’s call to continence is not possible..."

    Not possible?  Interesting theology involved here.  I never knew a person could find himself in a dilemma in which it was NOT POSSIBLE to not commit mortal sin.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #31 on: September 30, 2017, 11:49:48 PM »
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  • "If responding to the Church’s call to continence is not possible..."

    Not possible?  Interesting theology involved here.  I never knew a person could find himself in a dilemma in which it was NOT POSSIBLE to not commit mortal sin.
    Guess she feels pretty silly then, dying to prevent someone else from doing it.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #32 on: October 01, 2017, 12:26:18 AM »
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  • "If responding to the Church’s call to continence is not possible..."

    Not possible?  Interesting theology involved here.  I never knew a person could find himself in a dilemma in which it was NOT POSSIBLE to not commit mortal sin.
    He is telling such persons that if they live in sin they cannot receive Holy Communion.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #33 on: October 01, 2017, 12:45:15 AM »
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  • He is telling such persons that if they live in sin they cannot receive Holy Communion.
    Just come out of the kosher closet already; I'll bet you really rock that yarmulke man.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #34 on: October 01, 2017, 01:09:52 AM »
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  • He is telling such persons that if they live in sin they cannot receive Holy Communion.
    WHAT? Not "Repent and believe the gospel"?


    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #35 on: October 01, 2017, 01:29:26 AM »
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  • WHAT? Not "Repent and believe the gospel"?
    When those living in sin repent, believe the gospel, and make the appropriate changes to their lifestyle, then they can recieve Holy Communion. 

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #36 on: October 01, 2017, 01:52:50 AM »
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  • WHAT? Not "Repent and believe the gospel"?
    I guess that may not be possible either Nadir...
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #37 on: October 01, 2017, 11:22:33 PM »
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  • WHAT? Not "Repent and believe the gospel"?
    I agree, repent and believe the gospel. And those whose lives are not in conformity with the gospel are not invited to receive communion.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #38 on: October 01, 2017, 11:24:08 PM »
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  • I agree, repent and believe the gospel. And those whose lives are not in conformity with the gospel are not invited to receive communion.

    That's great, but that's not what your boy said.

    Shady P, really super-shady.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #39 on: October 01, 2017, 11:31:58 PM »
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  • That's great, but that's not what your boy said.

    Shady P, really super-shady.
    The bishop would tend  to disagree with you.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #40 on: October 01, 2017, 11:37:43 PM »
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  • The bishop would tend  to disagree with you.

    The facts as given, by you, don't.

    Again, you're shown to be a liar P.

    You'd rather have your bits broke off than tap out man.

    If I thought it a matter of virtue, I'd almost admire you for that.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #41 on: October 01, 2017, 11:55:40 PM »
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  • "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #42 on: October 16, 2017, 12:38:30 AM »
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  • In each of these ways of pastoral accompaniment, Bishop Martinez recalled that Pope Francis “encourages us to a paternal, pastoral dedication.” He wanted his priests to remember that “our accompaniment consists, precisely, in knowing at all moments that we are loved by God, who is Love and who desires that everyone be saved and come to the knowledge of the whole Truth and to eternal happiness through the Holy Spirit.” He added that it is a “a great work of spiritual mercy” to help form consciences well and in conformity with truth.
    Martens told CNA that Bishop Martinez “basically says that Amoris laetitia doesn't change anything of the previous teaching; and he gets back to the teaching of John Paul II in Familiaris consortio … he does use Pope Francis to emphasize the teaching of the Church. I think it's great news.”
    By omitting a “conscience 'solution'”, and clarifying that a personal conviction in conscience that one's marriage was invalid does not render that marriage invalid, Bishop Martinez is “on the same page” as Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia and the bishops of western Canada, Martens said.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/argentine-pastoral-letter-accompaniment-in-marriage-must-be-faithful-28749

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #43 on: October 20, 2017, 02:31:06 AM »
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  • “There is nothing in there in the sense of what you see in the Malta guidelines, or in what the bishops of the Buenos Aires province have said … I think it's pretty significant that also from Argentina we're hearing this voice.”
    Most of the bishops of Argentina who have written on Amoris laetitia have interpreted it as allowing the divorced-and-remarried, in some circumstances, to receive Communion without observing continence. The bishops of the Buenos Aires province, as well as Bishop Angel José Macin of Reconquista and Archbishop Victor Manuel Fernández, rector of the Pontifical Catholic University of Argentina, have all offered such interpretations.


    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/argentine-pastoral-letter-accompaniment-in-marriage-must-be-faithful-28749

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #44 on: October 20, 2017, 01:31:16 PM »
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  • .

    A iti teal siro malan ach triba nalpa nama.

    .
    The admission of public adulterers in so-called second marriages to Holy Communion is intrinsically impossible.
    It always has been and it always will be.
    But that doesn't mean that in some places de facto heretics won't attempt to do it anyway.
    Marriage is indissoluble and adultery is intrinsically immoral.
    But AL would have abstract ideas (divine precepts) subverted by pastoral action in the "face of reality."
    In this way a new "secret commission" tasked by Pope Bergoglio seeks to reinterpret the constant teaching of the Church.
    Effectively, a public adulterer would then be allowed to continue his adultery while receiving Holy Communion.
    Why? Well, ceasing his adultery is "more than he can give." That's why!
    .
    Now what we have is a first fallout of the objectively disordered Amoris Laetitia.
    It comes in the form of a reinterpretation of Humanae Vitae based on AL.
    Pope Paul VI, liberal though he was, managed to do one thing right.
    But one thing is one thing too much for the current "bishop of Rome."
    Unable to overturn Humanae Vitae directly by frontal assault, he has chosen to take a different path.
    The catastrophic introduction of situation ethics into the life of the Church via AL is now being extended.
    It's now being extended to accommodate the intrinsic evil of contraception.
    The intrinsic evil of contraception was affirmed by Pope Paul VI, but today, that is not to be allowed to stand.
    It must be torn down, and Pope Bergoglio has a plan:
    A iti teal siro malan ach triba nalpa nama. 
    (A man, a plan, a birth canal, Amoris Laetitia.)
    .
    Monsignor Gilfredo Marengo is the "coordinator" of the commission nominated by Francis to 
    "re-interpret" Humanae Vitae in the light of AL.
    This, on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of HV's promulgation which falls next year ( 2018 ).
    This commission has been given the ominous task of procuring some things from the Vatican archives.
    Namely documentation on the preparatory work for HV which took place over 3 years.
    Make that 3 years "during and after Vat.II."
    What did that preparatory work achieve? one might ask (please ask now).
    It resulted in the recommendation that the Church relax her teaching to permit contraception.
    .
    Say what?
    .
    That's correct (sic = as it appears)
    Said preparatory work for HV recommended to Pope Paul VI that the Church throw in the towel on her teaching.
    However, Pope Paul VI, while otherwise quite a liberal, set aside his liberal inclinations.
    He thusly acted perhaps under the influence of the Holy Ghost. (Do you have a more plausible suggestion?)
    He set aside his hankering for novelty just long enough to protect the Church's infallible universal ordinary Magisterium.
    That means what the Church has constantly taught even without a formal, infallible dogmatic definition.
    .
    The unannounced plan is now to overthrow HV by subterfuge since it was unassailable by frontal attack.
    The planned mudus operandi of the pastoral abandonment of the Church's infallible teaching
    on the intrinsic evil of contraception would appear to be the same as that which AL proposes
    for the pastoral abandonment of the Church's teaching on the intrinsic immorality of adultery
    and thus the "intrinsically impossible" admission of public adulterers in so-called second marriages to Holy Communion.
    IOW what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    .
    Leaving little doubt of the matter, Msgr. Marengo, the very coordinator of the not-so-secret commission,
    has already told Vatican Insider that
    it's time to consider "abandoning a conception of the doctrinal patrimony of the Church as a closed system,
    impermeable to questions and provocations of the here and now, in which the Christian community is 
    called to justify its faith through its proclamation and testimony."
    .
    In order to drive this point home, Marengo proposes 
    the classic Modernist opposition between Catholic teaching and "the here and now,"
    as if the mere passage of time could alter immutable doctrines and dogmas rooted in divine revelation.
    .
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