Author Topic: Amoris Laetitia  (Read 4667 times)

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Offline DZ PLEASE

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Re: Amoris Laetitia
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2017, 11:37:08 PM »
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  • What is more important is that these Argentine bishops are saying that Amoris Laetitia is also saying that you cannot have access to Holy Communion if they are divorced and remarried without having the previous marriage annulled.
    Annulments currently being of lesser value or use than an equal volume of toilet paper...
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #16 on: September 11, 2017, 04:42:11 AM »
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  • Annulments currently being of lesser value or use than an equal volume of toilet paper...
    Still the rule about who can and who cannot receive Holy communion still applies. And this bishop says that that is the teaching of Amoris Laetitia.  


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #17 on: September 11, 2017, 05:08:12 AM »
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  • Still the rule about who can and who cannot receive Holy communion still applies. And this bishop says that that is the teaching of Amoris Laetitia. 

    Uh huh.

    Even IF this WERE a (Catholic) Bp, and even if that is what he says, there is the larger problem which people like you WILL NOT SEE, even though you just wrote it via the word "this".

    But hey, it's not like the "Bishop" of Rome has any particular power or authority to teach clearly or definitively or anything so, "move along, nothing to see here."

    However, it's big of you to event tacitly admit that Conciliar "Annulments" are garbage, which also says that your "church" can't marry anyone reliably, which calls all your other ministerial acts and sacraments into starker relief as being as doubtful to downright fake as your clergy.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #18 on: September 11, 2017, 11:48:15 PM »
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  • Uh huh.

    Even IF this WERE a (Catholic) Bp, and even if that is what he says, there is the larger problem which people like you WILL NOT SEE, even though you just wrote it via the word "this".

    But hey, it's not like the "Bishop" of Rome has any particular power or authority to teach clearly or definitively or anything so, "move along, nothing to see here."

    However, it's big of you to event tacitly admit that Conciliar "Annulments" are garbage, which also says that your "church" can't marry anyone reliably, which calls all your other ministerial acts and sacraments into starker relief as being as doubtful to downright fake as your clergy.
    From the Baltimore Catechism;

    Q. 491. What is the duty of the Teaching Church?
    A. The duty of the Teaching Church is to continue the work Our Lord began upon earth, namely, to teach revealed truth, to administer the Sacraments and to labor for the salvation of souls.

    Q. 492. What is the duty of the faithful?
    A. The duty of the faithful is to learn the revealed truths taught; to receive the Sacraments, and to aid in saving souls by their prayers, good works and alms.

    Q. 494. What do we mean by "lawful pastors"?
    A. By "lawful pastors" we mean those in the Church who have been appointed by lawful authority and who have, therefore, a right to rule us. The lawful pastors in the Church are: Every priest in his own parish; every bishop in his own diocese, and the Pope in the whole Church.

    Q. 495. Who is the invisible Head of the Church?
    A. Jesus Christ is the invisible Head of the Church.

    Q. 496. Who is the visible Head of the Church?
    A. Our Holy Father the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, is the Vicar of Christ on earth and the visible Head of the Church.

    Q. 499. Why is the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, the visible Head of the Church?
    A. The Pope, the Bishop of Rome, is the visible Head of the Church because he is the successor of St. Peter, whom Christ made the chief of the Apostles and the visible Head of the Church.

    Q. 502. What do we call the right by which St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church and of all its bishops?
    A. We call the right by which St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church, and of all its bishops, the Primacy of St. Peter or of the Pope. Primacy means holding first place.

    Q. 503. How is it shown that St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church?
    A. It is shown that St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church:
    1.(1) From the words of Holy Scripture, which tell how Christ appointed Peter Chief of the Apostles and head of the Church.
    2.(2) From the history of the Church, which shows that Peter and his successors have always acted and have always been recognized as the head of the Church.

    Q. 504. How do we know that the rights and privileges bestowed on St. Peter were given also to his successors -- the Popes?
    A. We know that the rights and privileges bestowed on St. Peter were given also to his successors, the Popes, because the promises made to St. Peter by Our Lord were to be fulfilled in the Church till the end of time, and as Peter was not to live till the end of time, they are fulfilled in his successors.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church/

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 12:07:10 AM »
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  • From the Baltimore Catechism;

    Q. 491. What is the duty of the Teaching Church?
    A. The duty of the Teaching Church is to continue the work Our Lord began upon earth, namely, to teach revealed truth, to administer the Sacraments and to labor for the salvation of souls.

    Q. 492. What is the duty of the faithful?
    A. The duty of the faithful is to learn the revealed truths taught; to receive the Sacraments, and to aid in saving souls by their prayers, good works and alms.

    Q. 494. What do we mean by "lawful pastors"?
    A. By "lawful pastors" we mean those in the Church who have been appointed by lawful authority and who have, therefore, a right to rule us. The lawful pastors in the Church are: Every priest in his own parish; every bishop in his own diocese, and the Pope in the whole Church.

    Q. 495. Who is the invisible Head of the Church?
    A. Jesus Christ is the invisible Head of the Church.

    Q. 496. Who is the visible Head of the Church?
    A. Our Holy Father the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, is the Vicar of Christ on earth and the visible Head of the Church.

    Q. 499. Why is the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, the visible Head of the Church?
    A. The Pope, the Bishop of Rome, is the visible Head of the Church because he is the successor of St. Peter, whom Christ made the chief of the Apostles and the visible Head of the Church.

    Q. 502. What do we call the right by which St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church and of all its bishops?
    A. We call the right by which St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church, and of all its bishops, the Primacy of St. Peter or of the Pope. Primacy means holding first place.

    Q. 503. How is it shown that St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church?
    A. It is shown that St. Peter or his successor has always been the head of the Church:
    1.(1) From the words of Holy Scripture, which tell how Christ appointed Peter Chief of the Apostles and head of the Church.
    2.(2) From the history of the Church, which shows that Peter and his successors have always acted and have always been recognized as the head of the Church.

    Q. 504. How do we know that the rights and privileges bestowed on St. Peter were given also to his successors -- the Popes?
    A. We know that the rights and privileges bestowed on St. Peter were given also to his successors, the Popes, because the promises made to St. Peter by Our Lord were to be fulfilled in the Church till the end of time, and as Peter was not to live till the end of time, they are fulfilled in his successors.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church/
    And?

    It is becoming nigh impossible to conclude other than you're just a liar poche.

    Just WHAT EXACTLY are YOU tryting to SAY?

    Don't play "connect the text" with me, at least not with pages of material. It the becomes too easy to misconstrue "authorial" intent, fall into conflation, etc. etc.

    SPIT IT OUT.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 12:12:14 AM »
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  • And?

    It is becoming nigh impossible to conclude other than you're just a liar poche.

    Just WHAT EXACTLY are YOU tryting to SAY?

    Don't play "connect the text" with me, at least not with pages of material. It the becomes too easy to misconstrue "authorial" intent, fall into conflation, etc. etc.

    SPIT IT OUT.
    I am trying to say what the Baltimore Catechism, a voice of what the Catholic Church teaches, says.   

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 12:32:34 AM »
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  • I am trying to say what the Baltimore Catechism, a voice of what the Catholic Church teaches, says.  
    No, you're just driftnetting with quotes poche.

    It's just another application of a technique of manipulation seen in thing like, for example, "cold reading"
    I'm not quite sure if it is deliberate or not, but I'm getting there.

    Example, one that we all may follow as is given us, however humble that our gifts are or may seem.

    What if S. Thomas Aquinas did what you're doing? What if he just "copy/pasted" what others had said?
    If you disagree, then you disagree using what materials best you can to make your point; perhaps that which has already been provided, combined with reason will suffice.
    That often, if not typically, is all that is required.

    Not to call you a Protestant, at least not yet, but launching data and then going "see" is what they often do, no?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 02:05:26 AM »
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  • No, you're just driftnetting with quotes poche.

    It's just another application of a technique of manipulation seen in thing like, for example, "cold reading"
    I'm not quite sure if it is deliberate or not, but I'm getting there.

    Example, one that we all may follow as is given us, however humble that our gifts are or may seem.

    What if S. Thomas Aquinas did what you're doing? What if he just "copy/pasted" what others had said?
    If you disagree, then you disagree using what materials best you can to make your point; perhaps that which has already been provided, combined with reason will suffice.
    That often, if not typically, is all that is required.

    Not to call you a Protestant, at least not yet, but launching data and then going "see" is what they often do, no?
    Are you saying that Thomas Aquinus was a Protestant?


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 02:09:08 AM »
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  • Are you saying that Thomas Aquinus was a Protestant?
    Sure poacher, that's what I'm saying.

     Are you serious?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #24 on: September 15, 2017, 01:36:30 PM »
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  • I am trying to say what the Baltimore Catechism, a voice of what the Catholic Church teaches, says.  


    Thank you Poche. What you are saying is very clear.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #25 on: September 16, 2017, 11:56:04 PM »
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  • Before detailing possible modes of accompaniment, Bishop Martinez noted that in every case, the faithful who are separated should be helped “to do everything possible before God to try to reconcile, with an attitude of forgiveness, thus being able to re-establish the interrupted marital life.”
    If reconciliation is not possible, the primary canonical solution is to seek a declaration from the Church that the presumed marriage was, in fact, invalid.
    If a declaration of nullity is granted, those who are in new unions and who have no impediments may approach the sacrament of confession, contract a marriage, and receive Communion, he taught.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/argentine-pastoral-letter-accompaniment-in-marriage-must-be-faithful-28749/


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #26 on: September 17, 2017, 09:26:05 AM »
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  • Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #27 on: September 21, 2017, 02:26:30 AM »
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  • Until a judgment is found, those who are cohabiting with another person are invited to separate. If they continue to live together they “would be in an objective state of sin,” he said. This makes the reception of Communion impossible, he said, because the state of life contradicts Christ's union with the Church which the Eucharist signifies and makes present.
    If the divorced-and-remarried cannot separate but are willing to practice continence, abstaining from sexual relations, pastoral accompaniment will help them to come to the sacrament of confession and receive absolution, which will open the way to reception of Communion. “To persevere in Christian chastity it is particularly recommended that they approach frequently the sacrament of reconciliation to be fortified by that sacrament's grace, trusting 'in the mercy of God which is not denied anyone' if they have failed in the commitment they have taken on,” he wrote, quoting from Amoris laetitia.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/argentine-pastoral-letter-accompaniment-in-marriage-must-be-faithful-28749/

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #28 on: September 28, 2017, 02:29:55 AM »
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  • Cardinal Marc Ouellet denounced the “alarmist” and “unfaithful” interpretations of Pope Francis’s apostolic exhortation on the family, Amoris Laetitia.
    The Canadian cardinal, who serves as the Vatican’s prefect of the Congregation for Bishops, told Canadian bishops the document does not signal “changes to doctrine or to sacramental discipline,” but represents a pastoral approach that takes into consideration “the good of the person,” according to his or her circumstances.
    “Any alarmist interpretation” that says the document is “a break with tradition,” or a “permissive interpretation that celebrates access to the sacraments” for the divorced and remarried is “unfaithful to the text and to the intentions of the supreme pontiff,” said Ouellet.
    Speaking Sept. 25 to more than 80 bishops and eparchs attending the annual plenary of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops, Ouellet said contrasting reactions to the document have been “delighting some, worrying others, leaving none indifferent.”

    https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/09/27/cardinal-ouellet-denounces-alarmist-interpretations-amoris-laetitia/

    Offline poche

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    Re: Amoris Laetitia
    « Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 02:10:10 AM »
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  • f responding to the Church’s call to continence is not possible, then “although they cannot receive Holy Communion, we must accompany them and exhort them to cultivate a style of Christian life, since they continue to belong to the Church.” Bishop Martinez explained that such persons are not to be abandoned, but to be prayed for and encouraged. He repeated the invitation of St. John Paul II that they listen to God's word, pray, and attend Mass.
    For those unable to live according to the Church’s call, Bishop Martinez encouraged the practice of adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, noting that the Diocese of San Luis has 12 adoration chapels which they could frequent, where they should be “accompanied to commence a path of growth in prayer, in adoration of the Eucharistic Jesus. The Sacred Heart of Jesus will work wonders in them, because he waits for everyone, to say to them as the Good Shepherd: 'Come to me, all you who are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest'.”

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/argentine-pastoral-letter-accompaniment-in-marriage-must-be-faithful-28749

    It is important to note that the bishop here is using Amoris Laetitae to restate the time honored doctrine that those who are living in sin cannot receive Holy Communion. 

     

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