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Author Topic: America Needs Fatima, Who?  (Read 7223 times)

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Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2018, 02:59:27 PM »
 I found this commentary on the “Litany” to Plinio’s mother. . .
The most extraordinary claim here is also the most obscure, "Mother of the Axiological Principle": this means a principle requiring no previous principle, in other words God himself.

This hymn came into public domain when it was revealed by Prof. Orlando Fedeli, a member of TFP for over 30 years, who asked Mons. Antonio de Castro Mayer for his opinion on its orthodoxy. One can see where the roots of Introvigne's dislike for "apostates" lies. TFP did not deny the allegation; it simply shifted the blame on over-zealous young followers, and claimed the hymn to be perfectly orthodox ((Carlo Alberto Agnoli e Paolo Taufer, TFP: la maschera e il volto, Ed. Adveniat, S.Giustina di Rimini, s.d., p. 17 ss). - shifting the blame onto the boys is a time-honoured practice in certain kinds of organizations. It also claimed that use of the hymn had long been discontinued. The current official version of this issue is given by Roberto de Mattei in his hagiography of Doctor Plinio (Roberto de Mattei, Il crociato del secolo XX: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Piemme, Casale Monferrato, 1996, p. 249): 

"It is true that for a certain period some co-operators of the association used a litany with invocations to Lady Lucilia, composed by two adolescents late in 1977. This litany was forbidden by Prof. Corrêa de Oliveira as soon as he got word of it"

Oddly, this hymn by Brazilian adolescents seems to have spread across the ocean, since it was certainly used in France in the early '80s, and a former AC member recently told me that some TFP affiliates were still using it in Italy in the early '90s. When nothing else works, shocked TFP sympathizers who discover this hymn are told that "things are different in Latin America": this happened to be a favourite stratagem in my group, New Acropolis, which came from Latin America too.

If Plinio's mother is the Virgin Lucilia, her offspring of course must be quite special. Just how special appears from an extraordinary episode, which can hardly be blamed on over-zealous adolescents, since it is based on a statement made by Plinio, repeated in many works on him, and - as usual - proudly narrated in Cristianità. ("In memoriam: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira", November-December 1995, p. 6):

"On February 1st, 1975, in view of the increasingly difficult situation of the Catholic Church, and hence of the Catholic world, during a meeting of the Brazilian TFP, he offered himself as an expiatory victim. Thirty-six hours later he was seriously wounded in a car accident, the consequences of which followed him until his death"

More than its political character, it was this highly suspect theological nature of the group which led to its condemnation by the Council of Brazilian bishop

"During its 23rd plenary assembly, the Council of Brazilian bishops approved a note concerning the 'Brazilian Society for the Defence of Tradition, Family and Property', advising Catholics not to join the above mentioned Society […]. Its esoteric character, its religious fanaticism, the personality cult of the founder and of his mother, the abuse of the name of the Virgin Mary […] can absolutely not be approved of by the Church" 
 
(Osservatore Romano, July 7, 1985, p. 12, n. 408, weekly Spanish edition quoted in Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, frontispiece)
 
The terms "cult" or "sect", with their double meaning of "deviant religious behaviour compared to an institutional religion" and a "closed totalist group", are certainly ambiguous. But this condemnation of TFP reveals why the organization was certainly considered by some to be a "cult" in the first sense of the word; and why therefore this organization took a special interest in the issue of "cults" in 1985, that is exactly when Introvigne too started involving himself in this matter.

Former TFP members have written that Plinio was well aware of this association. Referring to cult accusations, he used to tell them:

"This must not come as a surprise; since you belong to TFP, you will be treated as if you belonged to a cult, by your very parents and friends! It will be terrible, and it will be hard indeed to stay faithful."
 
(Tradizione Famiglia Proprietà: Associazione cattolica o setta millenarista?, Rimini 1996, p. 38)

https://mond.at/kelebek/cesnur/storia/gb14.htm

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2018, 03:46:45 PM »
No thanks on the article.  Anyone is capable of using Google.  You may have "looked these people up", but do you actually know them personally?  I do.  They're not a cult.  They're no more a cult than people might say of the SSPX, SSPV, or some other Traditonal Catholic group.  Some of their members, e.g. the Heralds, did go off the deep end, but the mainstream TFP, what little is left of it, is not a cult.  In the United States in particular, the TFP members are little more than Traditionally-minded Catholics trying to find somewhere they belong ... just like everyone else out there struggling with the crisis.
This seems to be the method that Cera has used to research TFP. (Let it be known that I have no connection with them)  I cannot see any wisdom in quoting the likes of the Daily Beast and Miguel Martinez who writes "ideas expressed here are only mine" and claims to be have been strongly influenced by his involvement with the Blavatsky movement. The third quote is no longer available as that website is no longer exists.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2018, 04:15:56 PM »
Everyting pasted in by Cera, who obviously has a personal ax to grind, actually speaks in favor of TFP.

Plinio condemned the "Litany".  Article just blows off the suggestion that it was composed by a couple of kids at their schools, but neglects to mention that the kids who wrote it came out later and admitted that it was a satirical parody of their school lessons.  I mean, come on, you have to be an idiot not to realize that the part of the Litany where they invoke Plinio as the "axiological principle" is a joke referring to something that was taught them in class.  It's something I might have written as a parody of crap I heard in Novus Ordo sermons.

Biggest issue was this accusation that TFP had become anti-clerical; it was the reason Bishop Castro de Mayer distanced himself from them.  This anti-clericalism was implicit in the notion of their being a lay movement, but part of that was just a practical recognition of the fact that they did not have any direct support from any organized clerical organizations.   I know TFP members and they have a high regard for Catholic priests.  But, for a time, they had become cynical about the state of the hierarchy ... and it's hard to blame them.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2018, 04:17:23 PM »
I found this commentary on the “Litany” to Plinio’s mother. . .
The most extraordinary claim here is also the most obscure, "Mother of the Axiological Principle": this means a principle requiring no previous principle, in other words God himself.

:laugh1:

That was obviously a joke.  These kids were taught something about the "Axiological Principle" in class and were poking fun at the term.  That's why it's "obscure" ... because it's a straight-out joke.  Not to mention that "Axiological Principle" does not refer to a principle without previous principle, i.e. God.

Re: America Needs Fatima, Who?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2018, 03:28:33 PM »
John T. Armour
I WAS A MEMBER of the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP) from July 1980 until January 1981. I affiliated with the group after meeting with a TFP sympathizer in my home state of California. As a member, I lived at "the TFP seat" in Mount Kisco, New York, where I received the training and indoctrination that all members are given. I consider myself very fortunate to have been convinced by some good friends to separate from this group.
   Looking back, I can now see that the TFP is a dangerous personality cult whose purpose is the glorification of its Brazilian founder, Dr. Plinio Corea de Olivera. Many highly idealistic and religiously motivated young men have been captivated by its persuasive program. The appeals to moral, dogmatic and liturgical tradition which are so refreshing in this age of turmoil are, in my opinion, simply a means to lure individuals into the cult.

During the period of training which I received, I was taught:

   *  Dr. Plinio will never die. When his mission on earth is fulfilled, he will walk into an earthly paradise and then ascend into heaven.

   *  Dr. Plinio's mission is to defeat "the revolution," the Communistic and/or demonic forces which are corrupting the human race. He is the "pilgrim of justice" sent by God for this purpose.

   *  Next to the Blessed Virgin Mary, Dr. Plinio is most loved by God. Hence, St. Michael the Archangel is his own personal guardian angel.

   *  Dr. Plinio has the power to read a man's soul in order to determine if he possesses "Tau," the vocation and quality to fight the revolution. He is even supposed to be able to make this determination from viewing a photograph. "Tau" can be found only in males.

   * Members of the TFP are required to pledge their allegiance to Dr. Plinio. They make a consecration of slavery to the Blessed Mother and to Dr. Plinio. So highly regarded is Dr. Plinio that we were encouraged to kiss one of his hats that had come into our possession. And we kept a special room set aside for him where we had a special bed raised on a platform above the floor.
   When I first arrived at TFP headquarters in New York, the leaders convinced me that the group was not a cult. They asked me what I had heard about the group and, after correcting minor mistaken notions I had, and after I had assured myself that I was not getting into something I would later regret being a part of, I became a member. Right away, a man was assigned to watch over me, answer my questions and keep me from knowing too much until they were sure of me. He even told me what to write in my letter to my parents. Those of us whose parents did not agree with the TFP soon found ourselves referring to our mothers and fathers as the "fountain of my revolution" (FMR). The inference was that each of us had a trace of the revolution in him, and it had been obtained as a result of the corruption and leniency of our parents. We were convinced to reject and ignore any advice from them, to see this corruption in all our family members, and to treat them accordingly. In time, I grew to despise my family. On one occasion when I was being encouraged in this attitude, I told the leaders that I had caused my mother to cry when I had talked with her by telephone. The leaders actually laughed. But, at the same time, we were urged to convince our parents that they should be proud of us because we were clean-cut gentlemen who were doing God's work.
   It may seem odd that a group such as the TFP could attract and hold anyone's confidence and loyalty. But the appeal of spirituality was very strong. We all knew that something was wrong both in the world and in the Church. Here was a dedicated group living an exemplary semi-monastic life, ostensibly formed to fight the decay we knew existed. And we were young and inexperienced. I was actually convinced that I was in the Blessed Mother's special army.
   The religious overtones were very heavy. We were encouraged to receive Holy Communion daily in the TFP Chapel. That it was distributed to us by a layman who was one of our own was done only out of supposed need. That need, of course, served to provide more evidence of the spread of the revolution. (A large number of hosts were consecrated three or four times a year by a visiting priest from Canada. He left them in our Chapel tabernacle.)
   The converted mansion where about sixty of us lived was full of holy pictures, statues and other religious articles. We were required to pray all fifteen decades of the Rosary daily, and meditation was encouraged. Each evening, after dinner, instruction from Dr. Plinio was given to all. Most often, this instruction came via recordings; sometimes it was a printed message that was read. All messages were in the Portuguese language which was translated into English by one of the leaders.
   We were led to believe that, if we left the TFP, Our Lady would chastise us because She did not want anyone to leave Her army. Many tales of terrible deaths suffered by those who left were recounted. We actually knew a Brazilian member who had been transferred to the United States, but who left the organization to get married. When he contracted a bone disease which killed him, many were pleased to learn that such justice had been delivered to a turncoat.
   The atmosphere cultivated within this group is one which holds that the entire world is corrupt and only the TFP has escaped the corruption. Even traditional Catholics, such as Archbishop Lefebvre and his followers, are scorned—though never publicly.
   Very few members ever attend Mass on Sundays, not because of any inability to locate a Tridentine Mass chapel, but because most do not want to go. A few do attend Mass at a nearby Byzantine Catholic Church. Members of the TFP derisively refer to faithful Catholics who do attend the Tridentine Mass as "trads." I was mocked one Sunday for reading the Mass to myself out of a missal. TFP leaders even joke about "trad" priests saying on one occasion that they would like to have one kept in the basement to be brought out when needed.
 
http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=773