The Australian version:.
http://www.fatima.org.au/
and Oceania:
http://www.fatima.org.au/oceania/
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The Fatima Center has nothing to do with America Needs Fatima, but it looks like ANF has managed to use the "fatima.org" domain for Australia and Oceania, since it entails the extension -.au (for Australia). In America, fatima.org (https://fatima.org/) belongs to the Fatima Center, founded by Fr. Nicholas Gruner (RIP). Fr. Gruner was in no way associated with the ANF branch of TF&P. He was, however, loosely associated with TIA. One joint project, We Resist You to the Face, was co-authored by Guimaraes and Marian T. Horvat, PhD., along with 2 of Fr. Gruner's regulars, John Vennari (of Catholic Family News) and Michael J. Matt (of The Remnant).
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The founder of TIA, Atila Sinke Guimaraes, has an associate, Marian T. Horvat, and together they edit materials in English and Portuguese very well. TIA has a selection of books they've published including the many-volume Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani.
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Marian Horvat's brother, John Horvat II, is vice president and member of the board of directors of ANF. But as far as I know these 2 siblings have very little association with each other's office. They might write letters to each other but they don't have any joint projects, from what I've heard.
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The ANF group is basically Novus Ordo, and most of their membership is in Newchurch.
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TIA is absolutely TLM, and diligently seeks to promote the Latin Mass, recommending against everything Novus Ordo.
I guess you would call them Recognize & Resist.
But they have been a longstanding advocate of the fake Sister Lucia theory, long before Peter Chojnowski took it up.
I've had the impression that ANF would have nothing to do with the fake Sr. Lucy concept.
It seems to me they'd be terrified of alienating most of their followers that way, which might be the case in fact.
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I know Trads who are very appreciative of the ANF projects, since they take the Rosary to the streets without compromise.
Their demonstrations and public Rosaries eagerly invite the participation of all comers, and Protestants join in to pray the Rosary.
I have no idea how they explain the concept of "getting together to pray, but not praying together" like JPII at Assisi I & II did.
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A friend recently told me about a local Novus Ordo parish that had announced a public Rosary at the Church, in Simi Valley.
She was anticipating having it outside, on the sidewalk, where everyone can see it.
That's the way ANF does these Rosaries, often at public parks with soccer games going on all around, and the like.
But when the day arrived, everyone was inside the church, so my friend sought out an explanation from the parish office.
They explained to her that the Knights of Columbus had stepped in to run the Rosary, and they wanted to keep it indoors.
My friend was quite disappointed, because, she said, how can you expect to spread the Faith when you hide out of sight?
For this reason, she is an outspoken advocate of ANF, and thinks they are doing a lot of good.
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I was involved about 20 years ago with organizing a home Pilgrim Virgin of Fatima visit from the ANF group.
They set up the date, and tell you how to invite friends and neighbors for the ceremony.
They show up with their Virgin Mary of Fatima statue, and get all set up with decorations and literature in your home.
There is a prayer sequence they lead, which includes a Rosary and then a short speech by the ANF representative.
At the end he encourages everyone to drop some *money* into the conspicuously perched box with a small opening in the top.
When everyone is finished, the rep picks up all his stuff, beginning with the BOX, and carries the statue etc. out to his minivan.
They obviously are well-rehearsed and use the same format wherever they go, I would suppose.
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One thing I found on wiki is that the Southern Poverty Law Center lists the organization as a “virulently anti-LGBT group.”
Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP. He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job. He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Bagdad.
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There is a standing joke around here that when "America Needs Fatima (ANF), the TFP needs money."
When the TFP began the ANF campaign with the first publication of Crusade magazine they claimed to be revealing the third secret. What they published was an early 1960s claim to be the third secret that was discredited long ago, almost directly after having been published.
I got to know them well after they purchased the old Glatfelter estate in Spring Grove, PA about five miles from my home. I called the TFP and ask to meet with them. I had a nice meeting with their directors at their headquarters which I explained to them the errors in their first edition and brought them a lot of material from Fr. Gruner including the three volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima. I spoke to them for about 45 minutes in which they listened very attentively and did not say a word in reply. They thanked me an took my material which I know they read very carefully because their next issue of the Crusade did a complete about face on the Fatima story. They plagiarized all of Fr. Grunner's material as if it were their own and never, not once ever, gave any credit to Fr. Gruner. And since they have a policy of never criticizing any of the Church hierarchy, they never offered any defense of Fr. Gruner when he was publicly persecuted in his work to make the message of Fatima known.
I had a similar experience with the TFP when discussing the social kingship of Christ the King. Sitting at a table with at least a dozen members of TFP, we were in complete agreement and I could not criticize anything that was said except this: not one of them ever heard of Fr. Denis Fahey or Cardinal Louis-Édouard-François-Desiré Pie. They attributed the entire Catholic theological teaching on the social kingship of Christ to Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.
ANF is used primarily to generate income for the TFP. They had a real crisis when Rome claimed to have revealed the entirety of the third secret. They did not believe that the entire secret had been revealed but since they will not publicly contradict any Roman policy, they did not know what to do. They then sent a questionnaire and canvassed their supporters to get a feel if Fatima was worth continuing since it was now a historical interest only. The reason Atila Guimaraes of Tradition In Action left the TFP is because they were opposed to the publication of "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACTHANI." Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP. He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job. He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Baghdad.
If you want evidence that the TFP is a cult try to get one of their directors to say the name of "Atila Guimaraes" in front of witnesses. Just ask them how it should be properly pronounced. The TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled from the organization.
Drew
I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
There is a standing joke around here that when "America Needs Fatima (ANF), the TFP needs money."
When the TFP began the ANF campaign with the first publication of Crusade magazine they claimed to be revealing the third secret. What they published was an early 1960s claim to be the third secret that was discredited long ago, almost directly after having been published.
I got to know them well after they purchased the old Glatfelter estate in Spring Grove, PA about five miles from my home. I called the TFP and ask to meet with them. I had a nice meeting with their directors at their headquarters which I explained to them the errors in their first edition and brought them a lot of material from Fr. Gruner including the three volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima. I spoke to them for about 45 minutes in which they listened very attentively and did not say a word in reply. They thanked me an took my material which I know they read very carefully because their next issue of the Crusade did a complete about face on the Fatima story. They plagiarized all of Fr. Grunner's material as if it were their own and never, not once ever, gave any credit to Fr. Gruner. And since they have a policy of never criticizing any of the Church hierarchy, they never offered any defense of Fr. Gruner when he was publicly persecuted in his work to make the message of Fatima known.
I had a similar experience with the TFP when discussing the social kingship of Christ the King. Sitting at a table with at least a dozen members of TFP, we were in complete agreement and I could not criticize anything that was said except this: not one of them ever heard of Fr. Denis Fahey or Cardinal Louis-Édouard-François-Desiré Pie. They attributed the entire Catholic theological teaching on the social kingship of Christ to Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira.
ANF is used primarily to generate income for the TFP. They had a real crisis when Rome claimed to have revealed the entirety of the third secret. They did not believe that the entire secret had been revealed but since they will not publicly contradict any Roman policy, they did not know what to do. They then sent a questionnaire and canvassed their supporters to get a feel if Fatima was worth continuing since it was now a historical interest only. The reason Atila Guimaraes of Tradition In Action left the TFP is because they were opposed to the publication of "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACTHANI." Although TIA has a lot of good and useful information, Atila still promotes the geopolitical view of the TFP. He may end up being the last guy in the world to admit the that 9-11 was an inside job. He still to this day defends the conquest of Iraq including the bombing of inner city civilian population in Bagdad.
If you want evidence that the TFP is a cult try to get one of their directors to say the name of "Atila Guimaraes" in front of witnesses. Just ask them how it should be properly pronounced. The TFP makes a solemn oath to God never to repeat the name of anyone expelled from the organization.
Drew
I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.
I looked these people up in the past, too. They are indeed a cult, though there are plenty of well meaning people in their group. If you look up the name of their leadrer/founder, Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, it's all as plain as day.
I may post the article if I find it this evening or later in the week.
I learned to pray the Rosary from these people, I also learned the 4 last things from them, etc.
If not for them, I won't be a practising Catholic today. They've helped many lost Catholics go back to the Church.
So the devil definitely wants people to avoid the TFP like a plague. Thus so many calumnies.
No thanks on the article. Anyone is capable of using Google. You may have "looked these people up", but do you actually know them personally? I do. They're not a cult. They're no more a cult than people might say of the SSPX, SSPV, or some other Traditonal Catholic group. Some of their members, e.g. the Heralds, did go off the deep end, but the mainstream TFP, what little is left of it, is not a cult. In the United States in particular, the TFP members are little more than Traditionally-minded Catholics trying to find somewhere they belong ... just like everyone else out there struggling with the crisis.This seems to be the method that Cera has used to research TFP. (Let it be known that I have no connection with them) I cannot see any wisdom in quoting the likes of the Daily Beast and Miguel Martinez who writes "ideas expressed here are only mine" and claims to be have been strongly influenced by his involvement with the Blavatsky movement. The third quote is no longer available as that website is no longer exists.
I found this commentary on the “Litany” to Plinio’s mother. . .
The most extraordinary claim here is also the most obscure, "Mother of the Axiological Principle": this means a principle requiring no previous principle, in other words God himself.
John T. Armour
I WAS A MEMBER of the American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP) from July 1980 until January 1981. I affiliated with the group after meeting with a TFP sympathizer in my home state of California. As a member, I lived at "the TFP seat" in Mount Kisco, New York, where I received the training and indoctrination that all members are given. I consider myself very fortunate to have been convinced by some good friends to separate from this group.
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During the period of training which I received, I was taught:
* Dr. Plinio will never die. When his mission on earth is fulfilled, he will walk into an earthly paradise and then ascend into heaven.
* Dr. Plinio's mission is to defeat "the revolution," the Communistic and/or demonic forces which are corrupting the human race. He is the "pilgrim of justice" sent by God for this purpose....
They are not greedy for money, either. Their do not set a high price tag for their publications, they even give out some materials for free. They do not gain much profits, if any, from their publications, they mainly rely on voluntary donations.
No ax to grind. Facts are facts.
No ax to grind. Facts are facts.Cera, did you read the docuмent Alan presented to you. Did you note the facts therein?
By the way. The claim that the members of the TFP take an oath not to say the name "Atila Sinke Guimarães" is completely false. I spoke with the President of the American TFP recently and he himself used the name without me even asking him to. I mentioned the "oath" someone on here alluded to and he laughed it off as another lie about the TFP.
While I disagree with the expulsion of Atila from the TFP, on this point, the rumours are wrong.
So, why did they expel Atila?You are making an assumption that the story Atila has told is true. (His story, of course, makes him appear to be a brave hero.) We do not know for a fact that Atila was "expelled." This is simply his claim.
Cera, we've had enough of your cut-and-paste-from-the-internet jobs..
You refuse to answer what ax you're grinding against the TFP. Why are you so obsessed with them? Do you have any personal experience or just Google? I know many TFP members and can assure you that this stuff is nonsense.
You are making an assumption that the story Atila has told is true. (His story, of course, makes him appear to be a brave hero.) We do not know for a fact that Atila was "expelled." This is simply his claim.
p.s. Did you read the docuмent linked above? It is almost impossible to read on a laptop.Where there's a will there's a way! Maybe you just don't have the will to seek out the truth of the matter, but prefer to continue to calumniate. I had to magnify it in order to read it, but it is possible. If you want to have a balance to your distorted viewpoint go to your local library or a friends computer.