Author Topic: Altar Girls at the Traditional Mass (Read 3392 times)

TKGS · « **on:** May 09, 2011, 01:24:58 PM »

A few years ago on another traditional Catholic forum on which I am no longer very active, there was a discussion concerning the use of altar girls at the traditional Mass. It seems that many people had heard rumors that there were venues (Conciliar venues, to be sure) in which the priest employed altar girls for the traditional Mass.

In the end, the stories were essentially discounted because it appeared that all the rumors came from friends of friends of aquaintences of relatives who heard of it happening in some other part of the country. There were no first hand, or even second hand, accounts.

However, someone just sent me a link to an article from the "Father Z Blog". I don't know much about this man, but he is apparently a serious commentator on the traditional Mass in Conciliar circles.

I thought I'd post the article to see if anyone would like to discuss the issue. He is apparently suggesting that altar girls aren't necessarily a "good thing", but that the faithful shouldn't be too concerned about it either. All emphasis is in the original.

Link: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/05/tlm-with-female-servers-not-just-a-theory/

TLM with female servers… not just a theory? FACT.

Posted on 8 May 2011 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

A while ago Cardinal Burke, not a slouch when it comes to the Church’s law, made a statement about head coverings for women in church for Mass. In a nutshell, he said that, while the present Code of Canon Law, does not impose an obligation, with we are talking about the Extraordinary Form, it is good to go by the practices in use at the time when the Extraordinary Form was the Only Form. This should apply also to practices such as how to receive Holy Communion: at the TLM receive on the tongue while kneeling, even though the law in the place me permit Communion in the hand.

It just makes sense. Frankly I think that Communion on the tongue while kneeling makes sense all the time, but I digress.

There are some things which, though not strictly against the law, are simply inimical to the law’s spirit.

I received more than one note about this.

I was told yesterday that in England a priest was planning to have Holy Mass in the Extraordinary Form with female servers.

It seems to me that this is a really bad idea and deeply offensive to the sensibilities of those who revere the older form of Holy Mass. It is hard to imagine that this is true.

UPDATE 8 May 1305 GMT:

I had first received information which was at the level of a rumor and so I anonymized the top entry. But… now… it isn’t rumor anymore:

I had two notes…

Quote

Dear Fr Zuhlsdorf,
I am sorry to confirm the rumour about the developments at Fisher House in Cambridge. As a result of te decisions to have female servers in the Extraordinary Form all servers who have been helping with the Masses in the Extraordinary Form in Fisher house have resigned; the congregation was much smaller than usual because some of the faithful (like me) decided not to come (and probably also because of lacking information on the Mass schedule, so it was not only out of protest), and some people left during the Mass. As someone who has been deeply involved in the liturgical life of Fisher House … I am very sorry about this development, and I hope that Ecclesia Dei will reply speedily to resolve the matter (I have written to them twice last year, when then chaplain first mooted this idea, but still have not received any official reply). However, I would like to stress that the Fr Alban has been an exemplary chaplain to Cambridge University, ….

And this…

Quote

Dr Kevin Marshall, the LMS representative, says the Mass occurred, although he left after the kyrie. There were two male servers and one female. The congregation was about twelve (slightly less than half the normal size) and, for the most part, a completely different crowd. At least two people walked out.

I am sure that some of the more traditional mind-set will have a nutty about this and lose all ability to self-edit. I urge you not to have a nutty.

Observations:

Take a lesson: If priests want to get rid of something, they sometimes will make that something a very unpleasant experience. If they want to get rid of the Extraordinary Form, they need only do stupid stunts like this. Therefore, keep a cool head.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** May 09, 2011, 01:30:29 PM »

Wow -- it sure looks like an efficient way to get rid of the Extraordinary Form in a given diocese.

It also goes to show you the problems with the indult -- it's the equivalent of "truces during war" -- while the war is on, you can only have so much peace.

Allowing the EF next to the Novus Ordo is like a truce during a raging battle. Don't get too comfy!

Matthew

s2srea · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2011, 01:45:17 PM »

I wait for the bishops governing the FSSP locations to make this mandatory as soon as they gain a little more traction and offend a feminist 'sister' who is offended...

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2011, 03:09:28 PM »

So in the future will the Motu Mass be like a box of chocolates? You never know what you're gonna get? It's almost that way now.

One Motu Mass may have CITH, one may have girl altar boys, the next may have all women uncovered, congregants dressed immodestly or inappropriately, Novus Ordo table in front of the altar. What's next, guitar music & sign of peace?

Note how Cardinal Burke doesn't address the issue as to whether the head covering rule is STILL in force and applies to ALL Masses since the '83 code never revoked it, and all unrevoked Canonical laws are still in effect per the '83 Code's own words. If he actually stated the rule applies to the NO right now, he'd find himself quickly out of a job, tarred and feathered.

Jitpring · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2011, 07:23:34 PM »

Any Mass with altar girls is not a traditional Mass.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2011, 09:07:26 PM »

Quote from: Jitpring

Any Mass with altar girls is not a traditional Mass.

You said it best.

Sigismund · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2011, 09:44:18 PM »

Quote from: Jitpring

Any Mass with altar girls is not a traditional Mass.

I would have to agree. Don't they have to follow the rubrics of the 1962 Missal? I can't imagine t hat they allow female servers.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2011, 10:05:41 PM »

Some people revive tradition only to corrupt it.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2011, 09:10:34 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Some people revive tradition only to corrupt it.

See FE.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2011, 11:54:45 AM »

Prepare yourself, people. This is going to be introduced to try to get people to stop going to the Traditional Mass, and make it some "right" to have girls up there.

Steer clear of the "Diocesan" Masses. According to the NO Catholics, they have to obey EVERYTHING their bishop says, or they're "disobedient."

Keep this comment from Archbishop Lefebvre in mind:

Satan's masterstroke is to have succeeded in sowing disobedience to all Traditon through obedience (ie. false obedience). - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

Raoul76 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2011, 04:19:44 PM »

Quote

Satan's masterstroke is to have succeeded in sowing disobedience to all Traditon through obedience (ie. false obedience). - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

Oh, the irony!

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #11 on:** May 11, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Quote
Satan's masterstroke is to have succeeded in sowing disobedience to all Traditon through obedience (ie. false obedience). - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

Oh, the irony!

:rolleyes:

Smart-aleck.

Wessex · « **Reply #12 on:** May 12, 2011, 08:08:46 AM »

Actually, it is far easier to disobey a 'pope', even one you recognise, than it is to disobey a SSPX superior. Because with the latter therein lies those necessary elements of authority withdrawn from the former. This negates any state of disobedience by proxy. Now grounds for this exercise of substitution have been put down to mental sickness, German university education, partial papal awareness and now the heavy workload of Rome running two contradictory churches. Lefebvre's particular 'act of necessity' is the word of God ....... tagged onto whatever is still legitimate in contemporary Rome ..... and must be obeyed! Gosh, it makes be almost feel like a protestant questioning this, so mangled it has all become. I think it is far easier understanding financial derivatives at the most esoteric level.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 12, 2011, 09:04:39 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

So in the future will the Motu Mass be like a box of chocolates? You never know what you're gonna get? It's almost that way now.

One Motu Mass may have CITH, one may have girl altar boys, the next may have all women uncovered, congregants dressed immodestly or inappropriately, Novus Ordo table in front of the altar. What's next, guitar music & sign of peace?

Note how Cardinal Burke doesn't address the issue as to whether the head covering rule is STILL in force and applies to ALL Masses since the '83 code never revoked it, and all unrevoked Canonical laws are still in effect per the '83 Code's own words. If he actually stated the rule applies to the NO right now, he'd find himself quickly out of a job, tarred and feathered.

Stevus, on another of Father Z's blogs posts Cardinal Burke's analysis of women wearing head coverings at Mass.

You can read it here.

Cardinal Burke says that women are not required to wear head coverings at the NO, but that women should wear head coverings at the "EF" because that was the practice or custom at the time, but that women don't really have too.

Here is what is happening: The modern Church wants to convince modern Catholics that traditionalists are merely attached to customs or practices from the "old" days. If you really listen to them you can hear what they are saying. "Releasing" the "old" form of the Mass was for those people who are attached to the Mass of their "youth". They want to focus on the rituals. Why? Because if one actually looks at the content or the substance of the Mass, one can easily see that the Masses are different, that there are 2 Churches, and that can not be so.

So what Cardinal Burke is saying is that "altar girls" are perfectly acceptable. The "EF" doesn't have to use them if the people find it upsets their sensibilities but the priest can use them if the need arises and the people are not offended.

This is a practice for the upcoming acceptance of women Deacons. Cardinal Burke will say that this, too, is perfectly acceptable because the Permanent Deacon can not consecrate or forgive sins, which are "jobs" specifically delegated to the priesthood. Thousands of 50+ women will be knocking on the doors. This will solve the problem of an aging priesthood, because they will eventually have 1 priest on Saturday morning consecrate the hosts and pass them out to the Deacons.

It's coming. Soon. Before B16 dies, it will happen.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #14 on:** May 12, 2011, 09:44:07 AM »

So true, CathMomof7. You get a thumbs-up! :cool:

Benedict is just trying to please both sides (not that you can please everyone anyway). He claims the "EF" and "OF" are on the same level in validity and that he hopes both forms can learn from one another. Just flat out ridiculous.