Author Topic: Also for Catholic Martyr (Read 2616 times)

Dawn · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2009, 09:00:53 PM »

Just to make certain nobody miscontrues my words, I am saying that I believe Catholic Martyr to be correct.

CM · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2009, 09:30:06 PM »

And all I have been saying from the start is that I believe God's words to be correct, exactly as he said them.

"Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Vladimir · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:46:48 AM »

Quote from: Dawn

Just to make certain nobody miscontrues my words, I am saying that I believe Catholic Martyr to be correct.

On this particular issue, I am in complete agreement as well. As for 90% of other things, I reject his positions.

Caminus · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:19:29 AM »

Quote from: Dawn

Just to make certain nobody miscontrues my words, I am saying that I believe Catholic Martyr to be correct.

That the entire Catholic Church has for centuries been teaching, explicitly or implicitly, soul-daming heresy in one way or another? That makes you a heretic just like your friend. No Catholic could ever hold such an opinion. As per the teaching of the Popes whom you implicitly reject, we are bound to hold this doctrine. I feel very, very sorry for your soul. Rather than trying to admit you simply don't understand all that is involved in this doctrine and how to reconcile it with others, you'd rather dogmatically declare your own faulty opinions. Oh the darkness of your soul! God help us.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:21:33 AM »

Quote from: Dawn

Just to make certain nobody misconstrues my words, I am saying that I believe Catholic Martyr to be correct.

Dawn,

Correct about what? That EENS was substantially watered down by Americanist clerics? [Perhaps thus producing an equally erroneous reaction by Fr Feeney, etc?]

Caminus · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:28:22 AM »

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:38:29 AM »

Quote from: Caminus

I'd rather deal with a Modernist any day rather than someone who disguises himself as a traditional catholic.

Very true statement on its own merits.

Dawn · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:30:27 AM »

Yes, that the modernists have totally transformed the true meaning of EENS, and that it is due to the Americanists watering down of the Dogma of Faith to include all of their new found protestant/Jєω/masonic friends in the melting pot of American. This country is where the outbreak occurred and then spread to the rest of the Catholic Church.
I have not stated anywhere Caminus that I reject any popes other than the ones I obviously reject as I am what you would term Sede.
I do find it interesting though that you yourself must reject Pope Eugene. That paragraph which is defined Dogma spoken from a true Pontiff Ex Cathedra you do not take for what words he has spoken. You seem to be able to judge what meaning he had in mind as well as your ability to judge the state of my soul.
And, you reject the pontiffs I referred to in another thread that stated that they are denied the Beatific Vision if they do not have the caricature of Baptism. That is not Heaven. Heaven is the Beatific Vision.

Caminus · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:09:25 PM »

Quote from: Dawn

Yes, that the modernists have totally transformed the true meaning of EENS, and that it is due to the Americanists watering down of the Dogma of Faith to include all of their new found protestant/Jєω/masonic friends in the melting pot of American. This country is where the outbreak occurred and then spread to the rest of the Catholic Church.
I have not stated anywhere Caminus that I reject any popes other than the ones I obviously reject as I am what you would term Sede.
I do find it interesting though that you yourself must reject Pope Eugene. That paragraph which is defined Dogma spoken from a true Pontiff Ex Cathedra you do not take for what words he has spoken. You seem to be able to judge what meaning he had in mind as well as your ability to judge the state of my soul.
And, you reject the pontiffs I referred to in another thread that stated that they are denied the Beatific Vision if they do not have the caricature of Baptism. That is not Heaven. Heaven is the Beatific Vision.

Firstly, it is a grave injustice to claim that I reject a Pope and catholic dogma. Nowhere have I ever denied dogma. On the other hand, you call into question traditional catholic doctrine. In so doing, you need to call into question the method by which catholics accept a particular teaching, thereby rejecting the clear directives of Pius IX which, in this particular instance, amounts to rejecting Pius IX for he was merely articulating what every catholic habitually understands. Heck, Dave just deposes anyone who disagrees with him. Is that your modus as well? There is no way around this. You are kicking against the goad. You are violating the catholic system.

Secondly, as for "judging your soul" it is through exterior actions and words that the state of a soul can more or less be determined. Thus, when you violate sacred principles in favor of your own perverse understanding and will, this objectively manifests a darkness that resides within your soul.

Thirdly, it's "character" not "caricature" of baptism. Now, please provide the teaching which states that a soul without the baptismal character is necessarily denied entrance into heaven.

Fourthly, I note your silence with regard to my commentary on St. Francis' words. I take said silence to be a tacit concession.

Dawn · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2009, 02:11:52 PM »

Caminus the words of Pope Eugene are crystal clear and yet you do not agree with those words as he spoke them.

What Pius IX says is that "God who see distinctly, who searches into and knows the mind, spirit, habits and thoughts of all men, would never of His Supreme Goodness and mercy permits anyone to be punished with eternal torments (aeteris puniri supplicis) who has not incurred the guilt of voluntary sin."What is due in justice to original sin is punishment and not reward, but it is the punishment of loss, the loss of the Beatific Vision (peona damni); and what is due to personal sin is the punishment of the senses, the fire of hell (peona sensus). But the punishment of loss can be and actually is inflicted on those who die free from personal sin but unbaptized, hence still under the sway of original sin.

Innocent III says:" The penalty of original sin is the loss of the vision of God.

It is there in those two quotes that it plainly states that the soul does not attain the Beatific Vision.

Dawn · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2009, 02:12:54 PM »

Where is St. Frances De Sales in this thread?

Dawn · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2009, 02:16:29 PM »

Furthermore, Caminus as you accept the Pontiffs that I consider Illegal Occupants to the throne of Peter as true Popes, I worry about the darkenss of your soul. I worry about how you must always resort to ad hominem attacks on people which I never do.

Dawn · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2009, 02:23:16 PM »

Taken from the SSPX website:

The Society of St. Pius X professes filial devotion and loyalty to Pope Benedict XVI, the Successor of Saint Peter and the Vicar of Christ.

The priests of the SSPX pray for the intentions of the Holy Father and the welfare of the local Ordinary at every Mass they celebrate.

So, this is what you condone?

CELEBRATION OF VESPERS WITH THE FAITHFUL OF AOSTA (ITALY)
July 24, 2009

"So our address to God becomes an address to ourselves: God invites us to join with him, to leave behind the ocean of evil, of hatred, violence, and selfishness and to make ourselves known, to enter into the river of his love.

This is precisely the content of the first part of the prayer that follows: "Let Your Church offer herself to You as a living and holy sacrifice". This request, addressed to God, is made also to ourselves. It is a reference to two passages from the Letter to the Romans. We ourselves, with our whole being, must be adoration and sacrifice, and by transforming our world, give it back to God. The role of the priesthood is to consecrate the world so that it may become a living host, a liturgy: so that the liturgy may not be something alongside the reality of the world, but that the world itself shall become a living host, a liturgy. This is also the great vision of Teilhard de Chardin: in the end we shall achieve a true cosmic liturgy, where the cosmos becomes a living host. And let us pray the Lord to help us become priests in this sense, to aid in the transformation of the world, in adoration of God, beginning with ourselves. That our lives may speak of God, that our lives may be a true liturgy, an announcement of God, a door through which the distant God may become the present God, and a true giving of ourselves to God. "

For thus is the prayer of Benedict 16 and then too by their above statement the prayers of the SSPX and it's members.

Caraffa · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2009, 06:01:50 PM »

Dawn, the issue surrounding BOD is complex I admit. However one can have a BOD if they have true supernatural faith. A person who desires baptism, but does not have faith will not be saved. Modern controversialist theologians have done much damage to EENS and BOD; they often made someone appear to have a BOD as long as they lived a good life which is Pelagian.