Author Topic: Also for Catholic Martyr (Read 2623 times)

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #30 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:01:52 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Surely this statement, as it stands is one you can agree to. Isn't it?

Of course, but you are not seeing the point I am trying to make:

When a man is considered for Sainthood, and a fortiori as a Doctor, his works are gone over with a comb of the finest teeth. IF something is NOT in harmony with Divine revelation, it WILL be noticed and dealt with in the appropriate manner. NOTHING of the kind has happened with St Alphonsus' works, as one example, in 300+ years. Further, you are arguing that he taught an outright heresy, and NO ONE noticed or seemed to care, at the time or since. Do you see what I mean?

CM · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:03:24 AM »

We're back at square one, where I say: "Just read the decrees, and you see that water is necessary for baptism, baptism necessary for salvation, and that it must be in the form of the sacrament, ect, ect, ect.)

And you say: "Believe God and His Church" by which you really mean "Believe not what the words of God appear to say, but what men tell you they really mean, and how there are exceptions to them, even though the words themselves admit of no exceptions"

You are asking me to deny the words of God in favour of the opinions of the world. You really are advocating the broad path, as opposed to the narrow path.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #32 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:27:07 AM »

I will not simply post the same reply I made to this same post you made in the other thread. I am not at 'square one', but you ARE locked in a box out of which you cannot escape, apparently.

roscoe · « **Reply #33 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:09:49 PM »

Quote from: roscoe

Quote from: gladius_veritatis
Quote from: Dawn
Just to make certain nobody misconstrues my words, I am saying that I believe Catholic Martyr to be correct.

Dawn,

Correct about what? That EENS was substantially watered down by Americanist clerics? [Perhaps thus producing an equally erroneous reaction by Fr Feeney, etc?]

How is the insistance on EENS in it's original form an 'equally erronious reaction'?

In case it is not clear, above is the perhaps.

roscoe · « **Reply #34 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:12:20 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Quote from: roscoe
How is the insistance on EENS in it's original form an 'equally erroneous reaction'?

As Fr Feeney et alii did/do no such thing, your question is falsely framed and not ad rem.

The meaning of this is unclear. I assume you are saying that Fr Feeney did not insist on EENS in it's original form. That is not my impression.

Caraffa · « **Reply #35 on:** August 11, 2009, 04:18:23 PM »

CM · « **Reply #36 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:06:58 PM »

Quote from: Caraffa

The view that is being condemned here as Caminus pointed out is the view which you hold. It is you who consider theologians such as St. Robert and St. Alphonsus to be "BOD heretics."

So you are saying that it is a Divinely revealed dogma that priests and bishops in the Church can never fall into any error or heresy, either formal or material, or that their teaching of such heretical or erroneous doctrines would never go un-condemned. No, Caraffa, that is ridiculous, and counter-Scriptural as well; 1 Cor. 11:19, and especially:

Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30: "Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Quote from: Caraffa

A person can have supernatural faith before they are baptized. God gives people grace to bring them into the Church. "Repent and be Baptized." The repentance and faith precedes the baptism.

Show me the quote, Caraffa! Which authoritative Catholic teaching are you basing your opinion on, and are you sure it isn't contradicted by a Solemn teaching?