Quote from: Ladislaus

Theologians generally agree that the cessation of all ordinary jurisdiction would compromise the indefectibility of the Church.

Ladislaus,

This is simply not true. You are unable support this assertion with any evidence from trustworthy sources.

The Canon which I have cited in this thread proves that ordinary episcopal jurisdiction exists iure divino within the Church, and can thus never wane. Episcopi vagi are no teachers, doctors nor pastors of the Church; they are canonical lay men with valid sacramental orders, like the Eastern-Orthodox.

It is one of my capital points that ordinary jurisdiction must always perdure within the Church, and that this proves the falsity of Sedevacantism.

Quote from: Lover of Truth

What bishop do you submit to?

Monseigneur Johan Bonny, per gratiam Apostolicae Sedis Antverpiae Episcopus.

You are completely unable to locate a sedevacantist hierarchy claiming to be in possession of episcopal sees, while the true Church must always be easily located.

Do you truly not see the contradictions of your teachings with those of the Church, or do you consciously refuse to submit to the truth?

Is he a valid Bishop with ordinary jurisdiction?

thanks for that link LoT. It ceases to surprise me that a sodomite apologist would hold the office of Bishop in newchurch. He's probably gαy himself and is a practicing sodomite. When Jesus defined marriage as between a man and a woman, and condemned sex outside of matrimony, he obviously meant to completely proscribe ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. If sex outside of marriage is impermissible, and marriage is only between a man and woman, then it follows as the night follows the day that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is never permissible. The words of christ won't stop newchurch though. Soon you'll see gαy lovers receiving communion, then you'll see them at the altar.
Exilenomore will be there, hard pressed, but ever loyal to the stench-church.

There is no evidence that His Excellency is a sodomite himself. He defends that vile sin, and he must be opposed in that. But you cannot accuse a Bishop of personally having perpetrated the sin against nature, which cries to Heaven for vengeance, without presenting evidence.

qeddeq, you once again betray the arbitrary nature of your sectarian doctrine. You simply make things up as you go, without letting even a basic sense of justice get in your way. That said, you are straying the disputation away from the subject of locating the ecclesiastical hierarchy.

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Right.  He has ecclesiastical law for normal times law trump the divine law that would allow the Church to continue through the only known legitimately Catholic Bishops and would have a heretical sodomistic hierarchy over a traditional Catholic one.

Have you read the Canon? It clearly states that Bishops in possession of episcopal seats exist within the Church by divine institution. It is not a lex humana, but a lex divina. Your bishops do not even claim to possess dioceses; ergo, your hierarchy is not the Catholic Episcopate.

The right of electing a Bishop for the See of Antwerp does not belong to me, but to the Roman Pontiff. That the choice of Monseigneur Bonny is a disastrous one does not alter that fact. The Pope is the principle of episcopal authority, not the people. I am not a revolutionary; I recognise legitimate authority instead of overthrowing it. We, Europeans who have the faith, are sick of revolutions, and we want order restored. I want to combat the nefarious agenda of my Bishop, but I refuse to usurp authority which I do not have as a lay man.

And what I have said to qeddeq, I repeat to you: You have no right to accuse my Bishop of having committed sodomy when you are unable to provide evidence of that.

The Archbishop of Valencia has recently been threatened with imprisonment for having condemned sodomism. Where are the sedevacantist bishops who are being persecuted in this way? Would you call this Archbishop a "sodomite hierarch" as well? If you are calling the whole ecclesiastical hierarchy a "heretical sodomistic hierarchy", then you simply have no love for the truth.

The right of electing a Bishop for the See of Antwerp does not belong to me, but to the Roman Pontiff.