...all the Sede threads.

That is to say, all 9 of them PLUS my pinnacle, meta thread about why we shouldn't need "Sedevacantist" as an identity beyond "Traditional Catholic". I believe "Sedevacantism" should be a private opinion on the Crisis and nothing more. It shouldn't determine how you self-identify, which Catholic website you search for a spouse on, or where you send your kids to school.

I won't point any fingers here, but let's just say I am starting to feel myself getting angry and frustrated. And you won't like me when I'm angry.

I'm a man, which means I like to solve things. I'm racking my brain what I should do to solve this problem: massive paring of threads, mass-locking of threads, sede purge, etc.

Not to mention the time sink! I've spent a LOT of time today on this, plus over the past week. I need to cut back on that kind of time investment. At least one member posted that he feels far behind, having not visited CathInfo in 24 hours! I agree, there's been a lot of content pumped out lately.

So I decided that I PERSONALLY just need a break from the Sede debate. Besides, my last post on the issue is my ultimate, meta, 100,000-foot view anyhow. I can't really top that. Anything else beyond that is just a distraction. I want this last post to stand. If you want my opinion on sedevacantism, here it is. I will leave it here for your consideration, if you haven't read it yet. (See below the dashes on this post)

I will not be participating in any sedevacantism-related threads for some time. Any long-time CathInfo member will tell you: the most critical skill in being a LONG TERM member of CathInfo is knowing when to step back and take a break.

I have said my last word on the topic. So no one can put me to silence, because I'm leaving the debate now on my own volition. And that means it would be dishonest to talk in any of the threads as if I were still there participating. Why didn't Matthew respond to this or that question? Because I'm not there anymore, that's why. I'm taking a break. Not conceding defeat.

I don't want to DO or SAY anything that I'll regret, or anything that would be to the objective detriment of CathInfo.

So please respect my wishes. I leave you with my final words on the matter -- A slightly edited version of my "meta" post on Sedevacantism:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a Crisis in the Church. I think we can all agree on that point. The exact nature of what God allowed to happen to the Church, and how it will be solved, is to be found ONLY in the mind of God Himself. And if solving the Crisis deserved 100 points, I'd give THE BEST OF YOU 10 points, and that would be only for effort. As far as solving the Crisis, you get 0. No one in the past 53 years has gotten a "passing score" yet on that epic project. +ABL got a 59, the highest score of any man in the past 53 years, but that was still an F.

Furthermore, we all know what we gotta do. We're talking basic common sense: keep the Holy Catholic Faith, raise our kids Catholic, attend the Tridentine Mass with traditionally-formed priests ordained in the pre-Vatican II Rite. Beyond that, we look ONLY to books/doctrine/encyclicals before the Modernism of Vatican II, the smoke of satan, entered the Church. We stick to Traditional or pre-Vatican II books/art/music/devotions.

If we're all in agreement on this, then what is there to argue about?

Oh yeah, we have to figure out WHICH GROUP we should attend that Tridentine Mass & sacraments with, and whose bookstore we'll buy all those pre-Vatican II books/statues/devotionals/music/etc. from. Oh, and of course which Traditional Catholics we'll speak to, and which ones we'll shun.

And while we're at it, let's squabble about which particular version of the pre-Vatican II Roman Missale priests should use.

I still think the best response to all the Sedes with their "He's not the Pope" rhetoric is: "Ok, so What are ya gonna do about that specific point of "truth"?" If your answer is "nothing", then you are in PRECISELY the same boat as any other non-Sede Traditional Catholic. So what's the point? Why make "Sedevacantist" your identity, the way I make "Traditional Catholic" my identity?

If you did random checks during the week on me, my wife, and/or my children, you would find things that JUSTIFY that full "Traditional Catholic" label. "Catholic" wouldn't be enough. "American" certainly wouldn't be enough. Can you say the same thing about you, and the "Sedevacantist" label? What requires you to add that to the list of descriptors before "Catholic"? Is it the dart board in your den, which has a photo of "Bergoglio" (as you call him) on it?

When did "Sedevacantist", a RANDOM MUSING, a FALLIBLE, POSSIBLY WRONG OPINION become so many peoples' identity? When did "Traditional Catholic" become not good enough, or not descriptive enough?

Do I need to start calling myself a Ham Radio Trad Catholic, because I'm a Trad Catholic with a Ham license -- or is that unnecessarily specific? Am I just a "Traditional Catholic" who happens to like Ham Radio? I think that's more reasonable. Or should I call myself a "Gregorian Traditional Catholic" because I prefer Chant to any sort of modern Classical music/hymns during Mass? Or, am I just a "Traditional Catholic" who happens to prefer chant to polyphony/classical during Mass? Should I start a dedicated chapel or website(s) for "Gregorian Traditional Catholics", or would that be unnecessarily divisive? See my point?

...all the Sede threads.

That is to say, all 9 of them PLUS my pinnacle, meta thread about why we shouldn't need "Sedevacantist" as an identity beyond "Traditional Catholic". I believe "Sedevacantism" should be a private opinion on the Crisis and nothing more. It shouldn't determine how you self-identify, which Catholic website you search for a spouse on, or where you send your kids to school.

I won't point any fingers here, but let's just say I am starting to feel myself getting angry and frustrated. And you won't like me when I'm angry.

I'm a man, which means I like to solve things. I'm racking my brain what I should do to solve this problem: massive paring of threads, mass-locking of threads, sede purge, etc.

Not to mention the time sink! I've spent a LOT of time today on this, plus over the past week. I need to cut back on that kind of time investment. At least one member posted that he feels far behind, having not visited CathInfo in 24 hours! I agree, there's been a lot of content pumped out lately.

So I decided that I PERSONALLY just need a break from the Sede debate. Besides, my last post on the issue is my ultimate, meta, 100,000-foot view anyhow. I can't really top that. Anything else beyond that is just a distraction. I want this last post to stand. If you want my opinion on sedevacantism, here it is. I will leave it here for your consideration, if you haven't read it yet. (See below the dashes on this post)

I will not be participating in any sedevacantism-related threads for some time. Any long-time CathInfo member will tell you: the most critical skill in being a LONG TERM member of CathInfo is knowing when to step back and take a break.

I have said my last word on the topic. So no one can put me to silence, because I'm leaving the debate now on my own volition. And that means it would be dishonest to talk in any of the threads as if I were still there participating. Why didn't Matthew respond to this or that question? Because I'm not there anymore, that's why. I'm taking a break. Not conceding defeat.

I don't want to DO or SAY anything that I'll regret, or anything that would be to the objective detriment of CathInfo.

So please respect my wishes. I leave you with my final words on the matter -- A slightly edited version of my "meta" post on Sedevacantism:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a Crisis in the Church. I think we can all agree on that point. The exact nature of what God allowed to happen to the Church, and how it will be solved, is to be found ONLY in the mind of God Himself. And if solving the Crisis deserved 100 points, I'd give THE BEST OF YOU 10 points, and that would be only for effort. As far as solving the Crisis, you get 0. No one in the past 53 years has gotten a "passing score" yet on that epic project. +ABL got a 59, the highest score of any man in the past 53 years, but that was still an F.

Furthermore, we all know what we gotta do. We're talking basic common sense: keep the Holy Catholic Faith, raise our kids Catholic, attend the Tridentine Mass with traditionally-formed priests ordained in the pre-Vatican II Rite. Beyond that, we look ONLY to books/doctrine/encyclicals before the Modernism of Vatican II, the smoke of satan, entered the Church. We stick to Traditional or pre-Vatican II books/art/music/devotions.

If we're all in agreement on this, then what is there to argue about?

Oh yeah, we have to figure out WHICH GROUP we should attend that Tridentine Mass & sacraments with, and whose bookstore we'll buy all those pre-Vatican II books/statues/devotionals/music/etc. from. Oh, and of course which Traditional Catholics we'll speak to, and which ones we'll shun.

And while we're at it, let's squabble about which particular version of the pre-Vatican II Roman Missale priests should use.

I still think the best response to all the Sedes with their "He's not the Pope" rhetoric is: "Ok, so What are ya gonna do about that specific point of "truth"?" If your answer is "nothing", then you are in PRECISELY the same boat as any other non-Sede Traditional Catholic. So what's the point? Why make "Sedevacantist" your identity, the way I make "Traditional Catholic" my identity?

If you did random checks during the week on me, my wife, and/or my children, you would find things that JUSTIFY that full "Traditional Catholic" label. "Catholic" wouldn't be enough. "American" certainly wouldn't be enough. Can you say the same thing about you, and the "Sedevacantist" label? What requires you to add that to the list of descriptors before "Catholic"? Is it the dart board in your den, which has a photo of "Bergoglio" (as you call him) on it?

When did "Sedevacantist", a RANDOM MUSING, a FALLIBLE, POSSIBLY WRONG OPINION become so many peoples' identity? When did "Traditional Catholic" become not good enough, or not descriptive enough?

Do I need to start calling myself a Ham Radio Trad Catholic, because I'm a Trad Catholic with a Ham license -- or is that unnecessarily specific? Am I just a "Traditional Catholic" who happens to like Ham Radio? I think that's more reasonable. Or should I call myself a "Gregorian Traditional Catholic" because I prefer Chant to any sort of modern Classical music/hymns during Mass? Or, am I just a "Traditional Catholic" who happens to prefer chant to polyphony/classical during Mass? Should I start a dedicated chapel or website(s) for "Gregorian Traditional Catholics", or would that be unnecessarily divisive? See my point?

Now don't be like that, Matthew. You're input is needed around here more than anyone's.
You can have a brief break, we all need that now and again, then we expect you back firing on all four!

Now don't be like that, Matthew. You're input is needed around here more than anyone's.
You can have a brief break, we all need that now and again, then we expect you back firing on all four!

You'll be outnumbered even more by the sedevacantists who have (according to Meg) "taken over" the forum. 

I know! Sean's down (converted????), now Matthew... who next??? You blighters are doing a right royal job on us!!!

Meg seems to be MIA, also.  Maybe we should start posting more about other things.   Maybe we should drop the R&R vs Sedevacantist for awhile?

Wishing you all of the best, Matthew!

Sorry things have been too intense here on the sede aspect.  I often don't open certain threads when I see the titles.

Maybe we need a "sede-subforum" sort of like the "Feeneyism" one where if anyone wants to talk about it then it must stay in a specific spot. I say that holding a private sede position myself.

Good idea.

Wishing you all of the best, Matthew!

Sorry things have been too intense here on the sede aspect.  I often don't open certain threads when I see the titles.

Maybe we need a "sede-subforum" sort of like the "Feeneyism" one where if anyone wants to talk about it then it must stay in a specific spot. I say that holding a private sede position myself.

Only problem with that is there's very often massive thread-drift WITHIN any given thread into R&R vs. sedevacantism debates.

Maybe we need a "sede-subforum" sort of like the "Feeneyism" one where if anyone wants to talk about it then it must stay in a specific spot. I say that holding a private sede position myself.

That’s it.  Lock them all down in the ghetto, where they can’t contaminate the pure Catholic thinkers.



But don’t be surprised if they break-out and riot on one of +W’s EC’s dealing with Novus ordo graces 😉

See you around buddy