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Poll

Affirm or deny: Pope Honorius remained the Roman Pontiff until his death, even though the Sixth Ecumenical Council formally condemned and anathematized him as a heretic and Pope Leo II ratified that condemnation.

Affirm
7 (63.6%)
Deny
4 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case  (Read 216015 times)

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Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
« Reply #130 on: December 21, 2025, 04:26:13 PM »

Quote
In order that a violation of the law constitute an ecclesiastical crime, the violation must be imputable to the delinquent. Imputability is that property of an action in virtue of which it can be attributed to some person as its proper author.

Fr. John J. McGrath, Comparative Study of Crime and Its Imputability in Ecclesiastical Criminal Law, and in American Criminal Law, 1957, Catholic University of America Press, p. 13.


Quote
The knowledge postulated for the imputing of an act as criminal to its author includes the knowledge that what is being done is unlawful. The act must proceed from the agent’s free will with advertence in the intellect to its malice. The delinquent must be guilty of a grave sin before God and his own conscience.

Ibid., p. 14


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The moral order is composed of all those acts which have the property of rightness or wrongness, so that they can be imputed to the author of the act.

Ibid., p. 24


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The State and Church alike have the right to lay down norms of conduct for the individual. The violation of these norms or laws is a violation of the moral order. If the the law has a penal sanction attached to it, the legislator has deemed the transgression to be a serious violation of the moral order.

Ibid., p. 24.


Quote
It follows that the moral order, and the juridical – including the criminal – order are not separate and distinct. Since the juridical-criminal order is but one part of the moral order, the principles used in the moral order will apply also in the juridical criminal order. The moral order requires that an act be morally imputable to the author of the act if he is to be held responsible for it. The same principle must apply in the juridical-criminal order.

Ibid., pp. 24-25.


Quote
Moral imputability always has reference to the rightness or wrongness of the act. When the action is in conformity with the moral order, or with the norms of morality, it is a good or moral act; it is evil or immoral if it deviates from the norms of morality. It follows that there must be some advertence in the intellect and consent of the will to the goodness or evilness of the action in the performing of the act. If the agent performs an objectively evil act with no advertence to its malice, and with no intention to do evil, the evil cannot be imputed to him.

Ibid., p. 26.


Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
« Reply #131 on: December 21, 2025, 04:28:13 PM »
The quotes in the previous post show that a judgment in the external forum regarding crime is based on a judgment of what is going on inside the mind and will of the delinquent regarding sin.


Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
« Reply #132 on: December 21, 2025, 04:41:46 PM »
So, if YOU think he is THINKING heresy then he is, and therefore whatever he did externally is only icing on the cake to prove what was, "going on inside the mind and will of the delinquent."

Is that what you think?

It is this in a nutshell:

If an ecclesiastical judge gives the verdict that a delinquent is guilty of the delict (crime) of heresy, that judge has moral certitude that the delinquent is guilty of the public sin of heresy.

Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
« Reply #133 on: December 21, 2025, 04:51:08 PM »
"If an ecclesiastical judge gives the verdict that a delinquent is guilty of the delict (crime) of heresy, that judge has moral certitude that the delinquent is guilty of the public sin of heresy."


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Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
« Reply #134 on: December 21, 2025, 09:34:04 PM »
Orestes Brownson says in Vol. 13 of his Works:

"I have listened, with what patience I could, to the facts and arguments adduced to prove that the pope has erred in matters of faith; but even the great Bossuet was obliged to confess that he could not prove that any pope had ever erred when speaking ex cathedra and defining a point of faith, or condemning an error opposed to it. The strongest case is that of Pope Honorius, in relation to the two wills and the two operations in Our Lord. That the pope was negligent, and failed to do his duty by crushing out the insurgent error at once with the authority of St. Peter, nobody disputes; but that he did not fall into heresy or err in his own doctrine, the learned bishop Hefele fully concedes."  p. 362

I go with Brownson.