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Poll

Affirm or deny: Pope Honorius remained the Roman Pontiff until his death, even though the Sixth Ecumenical Council formally condemned and anathematized him as a heretic and Pope Leo II ratified that condemnation.

Affirm
7 (63.6%)
Deny
4 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case  (Read 104262 times)

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Offline SkidRowCatholic

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Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
« Reply #135 on: December 17, 2025, 10:49:15 AM »
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  • I respect St. Robert a great deal along with his findings...
    I really don't think you do.

    amounts to the Church purposely publishing and promulgating at least an erroneous encyclical or an outright fraudulent one for the last 1100 years.   
    What are you muling about? 🫏

    You eat "erroneous encyclicals from true Popes" everyday for breakfast from the post-concillars, so that is no argument in your favor. :facepalm:

    What would the amount of time that has elapsed for a "Pope" to spread a false teaching to the Universal Church matter? It doesn't.

    1 minute vs. 1100 years - it makes ZERO difference if it is a teaching on faith and morals for the whole Church.

    It really just comes down to error in facts vs. doctrine as was clearly pointed out on page 1.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #136 on: December 17, 2025, 11:06:05 AM »
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  •  Imagine a parrot just repeating:  "Baaah.  Honorius heretic.  Leo cofirmed.  Honorius heretic.  Leo confirmed."  Then you say, "wait a minute, I don't think this is clear".  "Baaah.  Honorius heretic.  Leo confirmed."

    As a visual learner, I am having a hard time imagining this.  Do you think you could make/post a video of yourself to demonstrate your point a little better? :laugh1: 
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #137 on: December 17, 2025, 11:31:45 AM »
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  • I really don't think you do.
    What are you muling about? 🫏

    You eat "erroneous encyclicals from true Popes" everyday for breakfast from the post-concillars, so that is no argument in your favor. :facepalm:

    What would the amount of time that has elapsed for a "Pope" to spread a false teaching to the Universal Church matter? It doesn't.

    1 minute vs. 1100 years - it makes ZERO difference if it is a teaching on faith and morals for the whole Church.

    It really just comes down to error in facts vs. doctrine as was clearly pointed out on page 1.
    Sshhhh, grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #138 on: December 17, 2025, 11:32:49 AM »
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  • Sshhhh, grown ups are trying to have a conversation here.
    OK. Jackass. 

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #139 on: December 18, 2025, 05:07:53 AM »
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  • OK. Jackass.
    I sure can be and I'm working on not doing that, and I am sorry for doing that, and I do apologize for my insulting you.

    Now, instead of replying with snide remarks, can you give a legitimate and logical explanation for the elephant in the room, i.e.  that after 1344 years and 197 popes later, nobody has corrected the encyclical, or even labeled it with a disclaimer or warning, nor has anyone even said anything about it being fraudulent except St. Robert?

    If you cannot do that, then as unpleasant, unbelievable and even blasphemous as it may be to you, it is still an indisputable fact that there is a binding and official Church docuмent from The Sixth Ecuмenical Council (also known as Third Council of Constantinople) which binds us to believe and which has stood the test of time for 1344 years and 197 popes so far, that a pope was a heretic and a pope at the same time.       

    Meanwhile, poster ArmandLouis has posted additional sources confirming the legitimacy of the docuмent here and here

    Whether you choose to believe it, blow it off or acknowledge it or not, there is an argument there. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #140 on: December 18, 2025, 08:12:54 AM »
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  • I sure can be and I'm working on not doing that, and I am sorry for doing that, and I do apologize for my insulting you.

    Now, instead of replying with snide remarks...
    You owe me no apology whatsoever. I think you have misunderstood me.

    Your name is "Stubborn".

    You are one of the most stubborn (jackass) people I have ever meet in my life and I have met  A LOT of stubborn people.

    In regards to myself, I could care less if you all knew my real name and called me, "jackass, shitbird, moron, heretic, possessed, whatever - to my face, behind my back, or from your keyboard. IT MEANS NOTHING TO ME - how you think of me, or how you treat me. This of course is mostly due to a lifetime of conditioning that most people have never had - so I can see why you would think you had insulted me in some way. If you feel the need to apologize I gladly except your apology and I pray God's blessings upon you forever. If you don't feel the need to apologize, I still pray the same for you and everyone and I think of you no differently.

    Now, don't change the subject  ANSWER MY QUESTION FIRST:

    What would the amount of time that has elapsed for a "Pope" to spread a false teaching to the Universal Church matter?

    You seem hung up on this whole issue; "But, but, but, there was an error of fact about Honorius for a very, very long time, so no, no, that cannot be."

    Now who is stretching infallibility to an insane level? You want, all the "T's" crossed and "'i's" dotted on every error of fact, when the facts are still not so clear?


    You accept/believe that the concilar "Popes" spread error of fact and DOCTRINE everyday like peanut butter on bread all around in their "encyclicals", even in a GENERAL COUNCIL - so why are you hung up on this whole Honorius thing? Because you, "NEEEEEeeeeeeeeeed to defeat the poor misguided sedes and demolish their error and in the process justify yourself." 

    The magisterium can err in matters of fact NOT doctrine. We are all human after all and to err is to be human.


    Clearly God has allowed Honorius' misstep to plague his reputation FOR A REASON, but that doesn't mean it is in any way necessary for us that we know what that reason is. We simply must defend the Church against her enemies, and you, rather than take up the arms that your betters have already fashioned for you - you take up the tactics of Her enemies - in your vain and blustering attempt to "destroy the evil sedes".



    P.S. if you REALLY want to issue some kind of retraction - then go back to THIS thread and recant your support of heresy against the Incarnation and the honor due to the Immaculate Conception of Mary - YOU DO OWE THEM THAT and everyone else who might stumble across your intransigence and Pharisacical attitude in refusing to be corrected in your HONEST MISTAKE of thinking Trump had done some "B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L" thing when, in fact, he spewed heresy while attempting to honor Mary (which God prevented him from doing) and he instead denigrated both Christ and His Blessed Mother.





    IT WAS HERESY! DOES THAT MEAN NOTHING TO YOU?

    "God became man when Mary gave birth to a son, Jesus," =  HERESY


    A simple recanting that THIS ^^^ in FACT, was NOT "beautiful" would suffice. You don't have to defend Trump (a non-believer pro-baby killer, pro-sodomite, pro-nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr agent) by muling some more about his intentions are whatever you think about why he posted what he did - it is objective material heresy he spewed and ALL true Catholics have a duty to reject such filth and defend the honor due to Christ and His Mother, which as Dom Geuranger pointed out ARE ONE IN THE SAME. You CANNOT honor Mary while denigrating Her Son. This is so BASIC it is sad.:'(

    Christ's and His Mother's honor matters not ours. Believe it or not, some (delusional, I think) people actually listen and look up to you. THIS is something you can make right.


    And newsflash to the snowflakes out there - THIS IS CHARITY - this is what it looks like when you are dealing with someone who is intransigent, pertinacious, Stubborn...

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #141 on: December 18, 2025, 10:14:16 AM »
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  • Now, don't change the subject  ANSWER MY QUESTION FIRST:

    What would the amount of time that has elapsed for a "Pope" to spread a false teaching to the Universal Church matter?
    Good heavens man, you cannot be that dense. 

    Are you saying that you see nothing to the fact that 100s of popes, theologians and other religious  scholars said and did nothing whatsoever to correct the *alleged* fraud on an infallible council's docuмent? Not so much as one word by anyone in the Church's hierarchy since that Council (1344 years) condemning as a fraudulent act done by some of the Church's enemies, to one the docuмents of her infallible councils? 

    You see this as nothing? You just blow it off as no big deal?

    As for the White House letter, nobody expected them to get it 100% right, we say it is beautiful because they at least said SOMETHING good.
     


    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #142 on: December 18, 2025, 10:20:24 AM »
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  • Are you saying that you see nothing to the fact that 100s of popes, theologians and other religious  scholars said and did nothing whatsoever to correct the *alleged* fraud on an infallible council's docuмent? Not so much as one word by anyone in the Church's hierarchy since that Council (1344 years) condemning as a fraudulent act done by some of the Church's enemies, to one the docuмents of her infallible councils?

    You see this as nothing? You just blow it off as no big deal?
    Don't put words in my mouth - I never said we should "blow it off, it was no big deal". I said, "Take up the arms of your betters (St. Robert et al.) and defend the Church against Her enemies - rather than AID THEM by using their same arguments to bash, "the evil wrong sedes." 

    Trust in God's Providence. He has allowed this to remain for WHATEVER REASON. If we knew exactly why, this thread wouldn't even exist.

    Fraudulent additions are only one of the reasons that St. Robert posited.

    Stop trying to argue like a Prot/Ortho because you need to justify yourself against the "evil sedes." 

     


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #143 on: December 18, 2025, 10:24:16 AM »
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  • You see this as nothing? You just blow it off as no big deal?

    As for the White House letter, nobody expected them to get it 100% right, we say it is beautiful because they at least said SOMETHING good.
    You bash me for "blowing off" a factual error and then you just blow of an objective material heresy! :facepalm:

    You are acting in a manner that PERFECTLY displays the meaning of the word, "hypocrite"

    DEFEND THE HONOR OF CHRIST and HIS MOTHER - recant your seeming support for heretical statements issued by the mouths of heretics and public sinners. 

    Don't make excuses for heresy.

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #144 on: December 18, 2025, 10:43:28 AM »
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  • Don't put words in my mouth - I never said we should "blow it off, it was no big deal". I said, "Take up the arms of your betters (St. Robert et al.) and defend the Church against Her enemies - rather than AID THEM by using their same arguments to bash, "the evil wrong sedes."  
    Well, the rest of the world will adhere to the council docuмent, you will not. Got it. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #145 on: December 18, 2025, 10:45:54 AM »
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  • You bash me for "blowing off" a factual error and then you just blow of an objective material heresy! :facepalm:

    You are acting in a manner that PERFECTLY displays the meaning of the word, "hypocrite"

    DEFEND THE HONOR OF CHRIST and HIS MOTHER - recant your seeming support for heretical statements issued by the mouths of heretics and public sinners.

    Don't make excuses for heresy.
    I don't need to make an excuse, you can reject popes as popes, after that, rejecting the Sixth Ecuмenical Council must be like child's play for you. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #146 on: December 18, 2025, 10:53:07 AM »
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  • Oh the Irony!

    Here we have a "Stubborn" person yet living who blows of EXPLICIT OBJECTIVE MATERIAL HERESY issued publicly for all to consume, i.e. Trump, ""God became man when Mary gave birth to a son, Jesus," =  HERESY

    This same "Stubborn" person wants to nitpick Pope Honorius' and his PRIVATE letters that were discovered after his death and affirm him a "heretic" (for his own evil end I might add). He wants YOU to affirm it too. He wants you to share in his errors.

    What Honorius was accused of postmortem pales in comparison to the above.

    A living person spewing heresy about the Incarnation - needs to be publicly corrected (which NCR did already). Those who PUBLICLY support this heretical statement need to be corrected publicly as well.

    But, "no, no, lets just ignore that ENORMOUS and MONSTROUS insult to Christ and His Mother, which is actually impossible to honor Mary with anyway (as Dom Gueranger taught) but he even goes on to say, "HOW BEAUTIFUL, LOVELY, on top of it!

    The hypocrisy is astonishing.

    Sorry your butt got hurt because you failed to actually READ the heresy he spewed.

    But now why quadruple down on your support for the heretical statement issued and "blow it off"?

    Because, you are a pertinacious, stubborn, jackass - that is why.

    If you won't recant please just please stop already, you are digging yourself in further and further with every post in defense of his heresy.

    The sixth ecuмenical council would certainly pronounce - anathema against you - THIS INSTANT for your intransigent support of a heretical statement. 

    Honorius remains a true Pope - who stands accused of failing to defend the faith as he ought to have (when alive), You are all over him, while you, yourself - commit the actual crimes you would like to definitely smear him with and BLOW IT OFF AS NOTHING....:facepalm:

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #147 on: December 18, 2025, 11:50:03 AM »
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  • Oh the Irony!

    Here we have a "Stubborn" person yet living who blows of EXPLICIT OBJECTIVE MATERIAL HERESY issued publicly for all to consume, i.e. Trump, ""God became man when Mary gave birth to a son, Jesus," =  HERESY

    This same "Stubborn" person wants to nitpick Pope Honorius' and his PRIVATE letters that were discovered after his death and affirm him a "heretic" (for his own evil end I might add). He wants YOU to affirm it too. He wants you to share in his errors.

    What Honorius was accused of postmortem pales in comparison to the above.

    A living person spewing heresy about the Incarnation - needs to be publicly corrected (which NCR did already). Those who PUBLICLY support this heretical statement need to be corrected publicly as well.

    But, "no, no, lets just ignore that ENORMOUS and MONSTROUS insult to Christ and His Mother, which is actually impossible to honor Mary with anyway (as Dom Gueranger taught) but he even goes on to say, "HOW BEAUTIFUL, LOVELY, on top of it!

    The hypocrisy is astonishing.

    Sorry your butt got hurt because you failed to actually READ the heresy he spewed.

    But now why quadruple down on your support for the heretical statement issued and "blow it off"?

    Because, you are a pertinacious, stubborn, jackass - that is why.

    If you won't recant please just please stop already, you are digging yourself in further and further with every post in defense of his heresy.

    The sixth ecuмenical council would certainly pronounce - anathema against you - THIS INSTANT for your intransigent support of a heretical statement.

    Honorius remains a true Pope - who stands accused of failing to defend the faith as he ought to have (when alive), You are all over him, while you, yourself - commit the actual crimes you would like to definitely smear him with and BLOW IT OFF AS NOTHING....:facepalm:
    What a nitwit you are lol

    The White house letter was written by non-Catholics and as they understand it. Have a little Understanding man and don't be so fired up to immediately condemn to hell everyone except yourself. I've heard a whole lot worse from non-Catholics. They are already going to hell, you should be surprised and even glad that they got as much correct as they did. Maybe you should work on getting rid of some or all of your bitterness. 

    As for the heretic pope Honorius, the rest of us Catholics have no choice in the matter, we all must go with the encyclical from the Council.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #148 on: December 18, 2025, 12:11:11 PM »
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  • The White House is filled with Protestants.  What they wrote was pretty pro/catholic, for a Protestant.  It wasn’t meant as a doctrinal dissertation.  You guys just expect WAY too much.  Almost borderline insane expectations.  

    Unmet expectations = suffering.  Dial back your expectations and you dial back your blood pressure. 

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Affirm or Deny: Heretic Yet Pope Until Death? (Pope Honorius I case
    « Reply #149 on: December 18, 2025, 12:17:50 PM »
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  • The White House is filled with Protestants.  What they wrote was pretty pro/catholic, for a Protestant.  It wasn’t meant as a doctrinal dissertation.  You guys just expect WAY too much.  Almost borderline insane expectations. 

    Unmet expectations = suffering.  Dial back your expectations and you dial back your blood pressure.
    More from another one :facepalm:

    Isn't the VICE PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY OF STATE "CATHOLIC" :confused: Yeah, I guess they aren't around much, so we should just excuse it some more right?

    You cover for his heresy.

    Go on then, dig us up some more Protestant Presidential quotes about Jesus, or his Mother and try to spin them as positive... 

    I don't expect Trump to spew anything BUT heresy. Rather it is YOU I expect to know better - don't be a tard. 

    P.S. *Blood pressure is only slightly elevated (due to your moronic intransigence), I have dealt with a fair amount of stress and this is nothing, I am however appalled at your lack of concerning for correcting error/heresy WHEREVER it is found. Now it is actually fine, it only took a few seconds to pass.