Author Topic: Advice (Read 1776 times)

Pontifex Maximus · « **on:** December 17, 2011, 10:21:18 PM »

Hello, I am new to the forums. I primarily signed up to learn as much as I can about traditional Catholicism and to get some advice from the traditional Catholics of this forum.

I am not sure if this belongs in this sub-forum, but my question is dealing with what I should do about my religious situation. If anyone can take the time to hear me out and give me some advice I would greatly appreciate it.

Background:

My mother was Catholic as a youth, but lapsed. My father is irreligious. I grew up irreligious and atheistic. When I was 18 years old I experienced what I believe to have been a transcendental mystical experience. Whatever it was, it changed my life and made me search for God/Truth. At first I explored Eastern religions such as the Vedic religions, Buddhism, and Taoism.

As I've grown in my knowledge of religion, philosophy, history, and further explored my heart, I found that I have been led toward traditional Christianity. Primarily I have debated between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. What attracted me to the latter was its emphasis on apophatic theology, heyschasm, and mystical union with God. It also seemed to be without many of the problems of modernism and liberalism that have come over the Catholic Church. However, my heart leads me toward Catholicism, and as a Westerner I can identify with the aesthetics, history, and tradition the Catholic Church contains.

Problem:

While I am not extremely learned on the whole issue of Vatican II and the modern Church, from what I can gather, it seems I would be led to a Sedevacantist position. So my question is what should I do? If I wanted to convert to Catholicism, would it not be strange to enter into the Catholic Church as a Sedevacantist? Would I then even be part of the Catholic Church? Would this not bring me hostility from non-Sedevacantist Catholics?

Or would I just be better off heading toward the Eastern Orthodox Church?

I am greatly confused about the issue, as it is an important decision. If anyone can lend some words of counseling, I would be most grateful. Thank you.

Pontifex Maximus · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2011, 05:00:18 PM »

Thank you for the advice. I realize this cannot be an arbitrary decision, and I hope God will guide me to where I belong.

I will do as you say in regards to Catholic books. I've recently read "Christian Perfection and Contemplation" by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange. I have also recently purchased "A Summa of the Summa" by Peter Kreeft.

What I would like to know would be is it even possible to convert to Catholicism as a Sedevacantist? Or would I simply convert and just "believe" in the vacancy of the Papal see? I am a complete novice in these matters so any help will go a long way.

Thanks once again.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2011, 05:17:03 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Pontifex. To start off:

Quote from: Pontifex Maximus

While I am not extremely learned on the whole issue of Vatican II and the modern Church, from what I can gather, it seems I would be led to a Sedevacantist position. So my question is what should I do? If I wanted to convert to Catholicism, would it not be strange to enter into the Catholic Church as a Sedevacantist? Would I then even be part of the Catholic Church? Would this not bring me hostility from non-Sedevacantist Catholics?

If you're a Traditional Catholic then you will receive hostility from Novus Ordo Catholics regardless of whether or not you're a sedevacantist. The best thing to do is to ignore what they say and concentrate on what you feel God's Will is. There is no doubt that there is a crisis in the Church, Traditional Catholics just have varying positions on the crisis. Some choose to say the Pope is not Pope, others choose not to go that far. This is something you must decide on yourself, though once you do enough research and see some rather disturbing quotes from the Vatican II "popes", you can understand why some would feel the need to take the sedevacantist position.

Quote

Or would I just be better off heading toward the Eastern Orthodox Church?

The Catholic Church says that outside of Her there is no salvation, so obviously joining the Catholic Church is a smart decision. Do you have a Traditional Latin Mass anywhere near you? I ask this because Trads generally do not consider the Novus Ordo to be Catholic, and with good reason.

Quote

What I would like to know would be is it even possible to convert to Catholicism as a Sedevacantist? Or would I simply convert and just "believe" in the vacancy of the Papal see? I am a complete novice in these matters so any help will go a long way.

By being a sedevacantist (or Traditional Catholic at all for that matter) you reject the conciliar (Vatican II) church, so yes you would be a member of the Catholic Church. I hope this helps.

God Bless.

Pontifex Maximus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2011, 08:57:29 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

If you're a Traditional Catholic then you will receive hostility from Novus Ordo Catholics regardless of whether or not you're a sedevacantist. The best thing to do is to ignore what they say and concentrate on what you feel God's Will is. There is no doubt that there is a crisis in the Church, Traditional Catholics just have varying positions on the crisis. Some choose to say the Pope is not Pope, others choose not to go that far. This is something you must decide on yourself, though once you do enough research and see some rather disturbing quotes from the Vatican II "popes", you can understand why some would feel the need to take the sedevacantist position..

It is quite sad that the Church is in such a crisis and so splintered. It seems to mirror the situation facing the whole of Western civilization, which I would say is in quite a crisis today, perhaps even close to death.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

The Catholic Church says that outside of Her there is no salvation, so obviously joining the Catholic Church is a smart decision. Do you have a Traditional Latin Mass anywhere near you? I ask this because Trads generally do not consider the Novus Ordo to be Catholic, and with good reason.

I do have a Traditional Latin Mass around me. I will have to attend one soon. Sadly enough I have never been to a Catholic Mass, so I might as well start off on the right foot and go to a Traditional Latin Mass.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

By being a sedevacantist (or Traditional Catholic at all for that matter) you reject the conciliar (Vatican II) church, so yes you would be a member of the Catholic Church. I hope this helps.

God Bless.

So there is a difference between the conciliar church and the Catholic Church? Forgive my ignorance, Church history and structure is a subject I have not explored as in depth as I would like. Either way, thank you for your advice.

Quote from: Cupertino

Basically, if you sincerely find the position to be true, you research and find a priest who is prominent (or connected with a prominent bishop of that position) and meet with him. He will guide you, determining whether your baptism was valid and whether you need conditional baptism. Perhaps he might make you learn some catechism beforehand. I think that may be all there is to it. I would recommend that if somehow you start to steer away from the sedevacantist position, that you still have a meeting with a priest holding that position, for the sake of having that under belt, in conscience.

I doubt I will be led away from a Sedevacantist position. From my rudimentary understanding of Catholicism I can already ascertain a serious problem with the modern Popes. I suppose I am also gifted in not having an emotional attachment to one position or another and am merely looking at things with my mind and my conscience. I live in NJ in the USA, so I will have to see if there are any Sedevacantist priests that I can communicate with in my area.

Once again, thank you for your advice.

Vladimir · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:05:40 PM »

While many members here may act with the best intentions, you will find it far less confusing to speak to a traditional priest first, instead of planning such a momentous decision as entering the Catholic Church on the advice of anonymous people online.

You will quickly find that Catholic internet forums are not exactly ideal places to discuss all matters concerning your soul, especially more sensitive ones that should not be revealed to anyone but a good priest.

Advice: don't wander the Internet in search of the "truth" before you consult with a Catholic priest.

There seems to be a SSPX chapel in New Jersey:

NEW JERSEY

NORTH CALDWELL
[Paterson area]
St. Anthony of Padua Chapel
973-228-1230
203-431-0201 [Ridgefield, CT priory]
103 Gould Avenue (corner of Mountain and Gould)
Sunday: 7:30am & 10:00am (High Mass 2nd & 4th Sundays of month)
First Fridays: 6:00pm
Saturdays: 9:00am
Holy Days: 10:00am & 7:30pm

Pontifex Maximus · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:31:44 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

While many members here may act with the best intentions, you will find it far less confusing to speak to a traditional priest first, instead of planning such a momentous decision as entering the Catholic Church on the advice of anonymous people online.

You will quickly find that Catholic internet forums are not exactly ideal places to discuss all matters concerning your soul, especially more sensitive ones that should not be revealed to anyone but a good priest.

Advice: don't wander the Internet in search of the "truth" before you consult with a Catholic priest.

There seems to be a SSPX chapel in New Jersey:

NEW JERSEY

NORTH CALDWELL
[Paterson area]
St. Anthony of Padua Chapel
973-228-1230
203-431-0201 [Ridgefield, CT priory]
103 Gould Avenue (corner of Mountain and Gould)
Sunday: 7:30am & 10:00am (High Mass 2nd & 4th Sundays of month)
First Fridays: 6:00pm
Saturdays: 9:00am
Holy Days: 10:00am & 7:30pm

Some sound advice. I will take what you have said into consideration. The only negative here is the distance. It is a near 2 hour drive, as I live in Southern NJ.

If I wanted to be a Traditional Catholic, would I have to attend a SSPX or other Traditional Catholic chapel? Or would I be able to just attend a Traditional Mass at any Catholic church?

Emerentiana · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:36:36 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

While many members here may act with the best intentions, you will find it far less confusing to speak to a traditional priest first, instead of planning such a momentous decision as entering the Catholic Church on the advice of anonymous people online.

You will quickly find that Catholic internet forums are not exactly ideal places to discuss all matters concerning your soul, especially more sensitive ones that should not be revealed to anyone but a good priest.

Advice: don't wander the Internet in search of the "truth" before you consult with a Catholic priest.

There seems to be a SSPX chapel in New Jersey:

NEW JERSEY

NORTH CALDWELL
[Paterson area]
St. Anthony of Padua Chapel
973-228-1230
203-431-0201 [Ridgefield, CT priory]
103 Gould Avenue (corner of Mountain and Gould)
Sunday: 7:30am & 10:00am (High Mass 2nd & 4th Sundays of month)
First Fridays: 6:00pm
Saturdays: 9:00am
Holy Days: 10:00am & 7:30pm

Vlad,
If Max wants to explore the sede position, why would you direct him to an SSPX church? They certainly are not sedes.
It seems like Max is enlightened enough to see some of the problems in the church.
MAX, there may be some independent priests in your area of New Jersey.
If you go to Traditio.com and click on their Latin mass directory. Pay 10.00 for the download of all the trad masses in the world.

GertrudetheGreat · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:52:29 AM »

Quote from: Pontifex Maximus

If I wanted to be a Traditional Catholic, would I have to attend a SSPX or other Traditional Catholic chapel? Or would I be able to just attend a Traditional Mass at any Catholic church?

Well, you'd probably want to make sure you had a valid Mass offered by a priest who preaches the faith without compromise. You'd probably also want to be in the company of men who see the problems in the Church and who take their faith seriously.

When they changed the doctrines, and the public worship, they also changed the sacramental rites. If you can't trust their doctrine and worship, you cannot trust their sacramental rites. Some priests think that the rites remain valid, but others disagree. It's a disputed matter. The safe course is to avoid anything even slightly doubtful.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:51:38 PM »

Quote from: Pontifex Maximus

So there is a difference between the conciliar church and the Catholic Church? Forgive my ignorance, Church history and structure is a subject I have not explored as in depth as I would like. Either way, thank you for your advice.

Yes, definitely. The Catholic Church contains the full Truth, comprised of never-changing Dogmas. The conciliar church, on the other hand, thinks it can change Dogmas and even the liturgy at free will, that there is salvation outside the Church, and also is infested with Freemasons, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, and pedophiles. That is not the Catholic Church. For examples of how Benedict and the conciliar church are heretics, you may find this thread interesting:

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Heresies-From-Ratzinger

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2011, 05:14:10 PM »

Quote from: Cupertino

Vladmir, Ridgefield and SSPX??! That is where a priest told all the people from the pulpit that sedevacantists have "anti-charity".

You will have to travel some from N.J. to meet with a sedevacantist priest. You should do that at least once. Some parishioners weekly and regularly travel across state lines to attend Holy Mass.

1) My first recommendation is driving to Albany to meet Fr. Collins. His place is on a main route, but he is the type who may likely be able to meet you closer to where you live because he travels alot.

St. Michael's Chapel & Shrine
507 Rt. 9W, Glenmont, NY 12077
Fr. Joseph Collins, (518) 462-2016

2) Then there is Bp. John Hesson in Paulsboro, South New Jersey.

St. Mary the Virgin Chapel
1520 S. Delaware St., Paulsboro, NJ 08066
Bp. John Hesson, OSB, (856) 931-1962

3) Fr. Adan Rodriquez in Monroe, Connecticut.

Our Lady of the Rosary Chapel
15 Pepper St.
Monroe, CT 06468
(203) 261-8290

That is very interesting you brought this up.

Can I ask where you heard this or if there is any evidence online? I would be interested in knowing, as it applies to someone I know right now who is seeking the true Faith.