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Author Topic: Advent Wreath  (Read 5064 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Advent Wreath
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2025, 01:24:27 PM »
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  • Yes, while it's not official Catholic liturgical practice, there's also nothing whatsoever to prevent or outlaw the practice of Advent Wreaths.  We've actually seen not a few of the best elements of Catholic Liturgy introduced this way by custom that was later embraced by the Church, where if there's a gap in some area (neither for nor against), sometimes people filled in those gaps.  As Pax said, Christmas trees and Nativity Sets within the sanctuary are not uncommon, and I doubt that the Church before Vatican II would have had any problem with those.

    Offline Freind

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    Re: Advent Wreath
    « Reply #16 on: December 01, 2025, 05:02:09 PM »
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  • Yes, while it's not official Catholic liturgical practice, there's also nothing whatsoever to prevent or outlaw the practice of Advent Wreaths.  We've actually seen not a few of the best elements of Catholic Liturgy introduced this way by custom that was later embraced by the Church, where if there's a gap in some area (neither for nor against), sometimes people filled in those gaps.  As Pax said, Christmas trees and Nativity Sets within the sanctuary are not uncommon, and I doubt that the Church before Vatican II would have had any problem with those.

    I think you should re-read the AI answer. It has access to tons of sources to give its answer. I don't know how anyone can think making innovations since Vatican II can be a good thing.

    In times of old, customs became sacred because they were tolerated for a length of time within the system of the true hierarchy. Bad idea to consider making customs since V2. I don't consider them true customs, on principle.



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Advent Wreath
    « Reply #17 on: December 01, 2025, 05:13:21 PM »
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  • I think you should re-read the AI answer. It has access to tons of sources to give its answer. I don't know how anyone can think making innovations since Vatican II can be a good thing.

    In times of old, customs became sacred because they were tolerated for a length of time within the system of the true hierarchy. Bad idea to consider making customs since V2. I don't consider them true customs, on principle.

    What is it with everyone using AI now to argue various theological points?  Use your brain.  It's not an innovation simply because it's not an official part of any Liturgy.  I've seen chapels that put relics, or different types of statues within the sanctuary, and then you can find American flags (something I don't like but which had been approved by US bishops), etc.  I'm sure that there have long been various types of other decorations, flowers, wreathes, garlands, poinsiettas, Christmas trees with lights, etc.  I see them today, and I'm sure they were out there long before Vatican II.  Can you find something official that says you can put poinsiettas on the altar?  I doubt it, but priests and chapels make a regular habit of it, and there's nothing that says you can't either.  So if you can put poinsiettas on the altar (or the ledge behind the altar), then you can put a wreath in the sanctuary also.  There's no official list of "things not to put in a Sanctuary".

    This is where an excessive Pharisaical legalism can poison the mindset of Traditional Catholics.  Can you put candles within a sanctuary?  Yes.  Can you put a wreath or garland in the sanctuary?  Yes.  Can you put flowers in the sanctuary?  Yes.  Can you put candles in the sanctuary?  Yes.

    Offline Freind

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    Re: Advent Wreath
    « Reply #18 on: December 01, 2025, 05:17:04 PM »
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  • What is it with everyone using AI now to argue various theological points?  Use your brain.  It's not an innovation simply because it's not an official part of any Liturgy.  I've seen chapels that put relics, or different types of statues within the sanctuary, and then you can find American flags (something I don't like but which had been approved by US bishops), etc.  I'm sure that there have long been various types of other decorations, flowers, wreathes, garlands, poinsiettas, Christmas trees with lights, etc.  I see them today, and I'm sure they were out there long before Vatican II.  Can you find something official that says you can put poinsiettas on the altar?  I doubt it, but priests and chapels make a regular habit of it, and there's nothing that says you can't either.  So if you can put poinsiettas on the altar (or the ledge behind the altar), then you can put a wreath in the sanctuary also.  There's no official list of "things not to put in a Sanctuary".

    How are you "sure" they were there before Vatican II ?

    Flowers on the altar have been approved by the Church.

    Now you are turning lit candles invented by Lutherans into a mere "wreath"?

    Offline Freind

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    Re: Advent Wreath
    « Reply #19 on: December 01, 2025, 05:29:20 PM »
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  • Offline Twice dyed

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    Advent Editorial, Le Chardonnet, 2006, "Will we know to Receive Him?"
    « Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 11:19:35 AM »
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  • Unofficial Translation.
    In 2006, the old SSPX was speaking truth, and bolder.
    Great article here...engaging!...

    Source: 'Le Chardonnet', monthly bulletin. Dec 2006


    WILL WE KNOW TO RECEIVE HIM?

    "He came to his people and his people did not receive Him"

      This is what sums up all the spiritual drama of human history. "He came to his people," is the Christmas visit that the Son of God made to men. "And his people did not receive Him"; beyond the Jews, all the men who refuse Jesus Christ are gathered here.

      The Jews did not welcome the visit of Our Lord. Jesus Christ came to visit men, and this visit is part of a specific time in history and in a specific corner of the world: Bethlehem. Such a visit had been awaited by the Jews for a very long time: more than 4,000 years; and it was God Himself who put the hope of the Messiah in the heart of his people. Now, this is something unusual: this Jєωιѕн people, who for centuries were directed towards "He who must come", did not receive him when He came. Why?

            The visit of Our Lord Jesus Christ bothers the Jews.

      They were willing to receive everything, except precisely what was offered to them. They could not imagine, said Saint John, that the decisive event of salvation would depend on a man they could listen to, see and touch. They could not imagine, adds St. John, that the decisive event of salvation would come from the hand of a man whose origin, the city and the house they knew. The Word that would 'incarnate' was unthinkable and disconcerting for them. The Jews then preferred not to be bothered. If they had surpassed and conquered their surprise before the "Word made flesh" they would then have received the mystery of the Love of God. But in front of the "Word made flesh" they shut themselves up and sank into their perplexity.

      It's unthinkable, so it's impossible; it's disconcerting, so it's scandalous. And so all excuses are good to refuse Jesus Christ, Who despite everything, does not skimp on the proofs of His identity. They hear Jesus Christ but do not listen to Him. He talks to them about freedom and they answer that they have never been slaves to anyone... What pride!

      He tells them the truth and they answer Him that they know the Law of Moses very well... What a perfidious pride! They see Jesus Christ but do not discover Him. How could those who are only interested in temporal glory discover his divine glory? How would those who are only interested in political domination recognize his royalty? So they close shut, harden and refuse. The visit of Jesus Christ bothers them too much; it bothered them yesterday and even more so today. They did not open the door of their heart, their intelligence, their life: even worse they persecuted Him and continue this work. What is said about the Jews, couldn't we apply it to ourselves?

      Does the visit of Christ bother us? This coming Christmas 2006, He will visit each of us. And we, will we receive his visit? Christmas is not only a distant memory: it is a constantly renewed mystery, it is He Himself who visits us. He visits us in the forgiveness of the sacrament of penance, in the communion of Holy Mass, in our life: such a person, such an ordeal, such an illness, a mourning, a failure may well be Jesus Himself who comes to us.

      "Behold, I stand at the door and I knock," says St. John of Our Lord. The visits that Jesus makes to us every day, and even more so on this Christmas day can be as unexpected, unusual and embarrassing, as was his visit to the Jews at that Christmas of old.

      What to do? Either let us be disturbed by Our Lord or not. Or we prefer our little tranquility and then we find many reasons to justify ourselves (I don't have time, it's not for me, God doesn't ask me so much...) and all excuses are then good in our eyes not to give place, all the place to Our Lord Jesus Christ in our life, like the inn of Bethlehem.

      Or we open the door of our heart and our life to Him, and then the more open it, the more we will realize that we do not give Him all the space for Him to really live in us. With a single look, our whole human life passes before us: our own home, our children, our work, our relationships, our distractions, our money, our culture.

      All this is likely to be visited by Jesus, and this is where He must be received. Will the visit that the Redeemer will make to us on Christmas Day be for us a sad missed visit or on the contrary will it mean the joyful entry of the Lord into our lives?

      "Behold, I come to the door and knock: if someone hears my voice and opens the door, I will enter his house, I will have dinner with him and he with Me," says St. John in the Apocalypse.

      This is the real joy of Christmas, the one that comes from a heart and a life attentive and available to the King who comes constantly.

      Promise him...

      "The Divine Child was born. Go kneel in front of his crib and thank Him for coming". Please God that we do not deserve this painful reproach that St. John announces: "He came to his people and his people did not receive Him".

      Promise Him, at least for you, that his visit will not be useless. That at least from these first times of Advent you will not live as if there were no crucifix in your houses to receive your daily prayers, that you will not live as if there were no sacrament of penance to unload your souls and purify them by the merits of the Precious Blood of Our Lord, that you will not live as if the Eucharist - which feeds your lives with its divine life and transforms you into Him - was only received on Easter day, or even only on Sundays of the year.
    "The Divine Child is born, go kneel...

      Promise Him that you will no longer live as if it were not just and holy to preserve and develop the supernatural life in your souls, by means of the observance of the commandments and the practice of Christian virtues; that you will no longer live as if He had not left us instructions of true love that prevent us from living as hard and selfish pagans; that you will no longer live as if he had not redeemed us at such a high price; that you will no longer live as if this earthly life were your whole focus, and as if He had not promised us a better life.

      In a word: since He wanted to take our human nature, promise Him as compensation to live faithfully and as true sons of God, of his divine life.

      May this Christmas 2006 really change something in your hearts, in each of your lives and in our parish and then I can wish you a happy and holy Christmas... but I still wish it holy and joyful.

    Abbé Xavier BEAUVAIS

    End.


    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)