Author Topic: Abp MARCEL LEFEBVRE AND SSPX PRIESTS IN HERESY (Read 4869 times)

Patman · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2010, 05:08:35 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

1) There was already massive infiltration by the time of Pius XII; and it was probably well underway during Pius IX.

2) decrees of the Holy Office are not infallible. Just because a pope is legitimate (i.e. "infallible") doesn't mean that everything that issues from the Vatican during his pontificate is infallible. Pius XII would have single-handedly quadrupled the size of the Enchiridion Symbolorum.

1) Infiltration by "false brethren" has been around to varying degrees since Apostolic times - Judas being the first, making over 8% of our first clergy corrupt! However, the Church is "holy".

2) Initially these thing are not looked at as being infallible in se, but as they become implemented and accepted for years by the whole Church, they are infallible, because the Church is "holy". St. Thomas Aquinas said that it would be a blasphemy to say the Church does anything even in vain, never mind harmful.

Belloc · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2010, 08:00:51 AM »

Lionel, do you really have to shout out your into and headlines, really, is it necessary.???

and sinece matthew-our forum headman-was a seminarian and a member of SSPX, is Matthew in heresy?

please, my spastic friend, tell us all!

ABL and his people are perserving tradition-remember that next time you are sitting Sunday morning on that lonely couch...

Belloc · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2010, 08:02:26 AM »

Quote from: LionelAndrades

Ladislaus,

Quote
Stuff like this drives me nuts. We know that absolutely everyone -- without exceptions -- must become Catholic in order to be saved. People can be saved in other religions.

Everyone needs to explicitly be a member of the Catholic Church to be saved and there are no exceptions. Every non Catholic needs to convert and there are no exceptions.

If someone is saved in another religion then it is known only to God. We do not even know if anyone is saved in another religion.

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Either they're Catholic or they're not Catholic. Either there are exceptions or there aren't.

Everyone who is in Heaven is a Catholic.

Quote
You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want to accept the Church's definitions on EENS which use language like "absolutely no one at all" and yet accept implicit BoD (which you call explicit) as well.

BOD(Baptism of desire) can never ever be explicit. We can only administer the Baptism of water. We cannot give anyone the Baptism of Desire.

Quote
At least be logically consistent and say that people who are saved are Catholic implicitly. No Protestant has ever been saved. Only Catholics are saved.

Only Catholics are saved.

In Christ
Lionel[/size]

Lionel-stop the damn shouting arleady-take a &^%&^%&^ pill if you need one, please-get a damn grip on yourself.....

Belloc · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2010, 08:02:57 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

I fail to see where the SSPX is in heresy.

he is unstable

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2010, 02:28:59 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
Quote from: Ladislaus
You'd have to give me more than Cushing as a source for the assertion that Pius XII fully approved this docuмent.

During the time of P12, the curia was already thoroughly infiltrated by the evildoers who would bring us Vatican II.

1) I don't buy that P12 authorized this docuмent.
2) Even if he had done so, it's not an infallible docuмent.

1.- Actually, the full infiltration did not take place until after John XXIII was elected, but it did start during the reign of Pius XII.

2.- Pius XII was the last Pope to be considered "infallible" so if he approved the docuмent then it would be infallible.

I disagree on both counts.

1) There was already massive infiltration by the time of Pius XII; and it was probably well underway during Pius IX.

2) decrees of the Holy Office are not infallible. Just because a pope is legitimate (i.e. "infallible") doesn't mean that everything that issues from the Vatican during his pontificate is infallible. Pius XII would have single-handedly quadrupled the size of the Enchiridion Symbolorum.

1.- This really doesn't matter, but the infiltration did not become massive until after John XXIII announced the second Vatican Council. Vatican II was hi-jacked by non-Catholics. I believe the infiltration did start before John XXIII was even elected, I agree with you on that, but it didn't really become massive until after he was elected.

2.- What Patman said.