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Author Topic: Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"  (Read 1202 times)

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Offline Petertherock

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Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
« on: December 31, 2013, 07:00:57 AM »
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  • It's a fairly old article, but just remember, in the VII Church she's in "full communion!"

    http://catholicexchange.com/abortion-nancy-Peℓσѕιs-sacred-ground

    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕι’s “Sacred Ground”
    by DR. PAUL KENGOR on JUNE 26, 2013 · 38 COMMENTS

    The list of outrageous statements by Congresswoman Nancy Peℓσѕι, a Roman Catholic, is unending. Her statements—and actions—advancing abortion have been nothing short of astounding, and extremely damaging. They are scandalous. But her latest comment may be her worst yet.

    Asked why she refuses to support a bill banning late-term abortions, Peℓσѕι said: “As a practicing and respectful Catholic, this is sacred ground to me…. This shouldn’t have anything to do with politics.”

    Her statement speaks for itself. And frankly, I’m grateful she said it. Clearly, this is where Nancy Peℓσѕι’s heart and mind and soul is. And she is speaking for countless other radical “abortion rights” advocates.

    In the past, I’ve gotten nasty responses when I’ve referred to abortion as a “holy sacrament” in the “feminist church.” I was told this was over the top, too harsh, exaggerated. Well, it isn’t. For certain extreme liberal feminists, there’s nothing more dear—nothing more sacred—than abortion. Nancy Peℓσѕι has simply publicly reaffirmed the fact.

    Most distressing, Peℓσѕι said this as a Catholic, explicitly linking her position to her faith, as she often does. She is a lifelong product of Catholic education and parishes. She went to Trinity College in Washington, DC, and then attended Mass at St. Vincent de Paul Church in the diocese of San Francisco. As she has stated, she was “raised to believe … what I profess.”

    A few years back, her priest in San Francisco, Father John Ring, when asked about her radical abortion stance, demurred, saying: “She’s a fine woman. She is a good parishioner.” When asked about Peℓσѕι receiving Holy Communion, Father Ring testily said: “Leave it in God’s hands. I’m not going to argue the matter with you.”

    Now, in Washington, Peℓσѕι is under the auspices of Cardinal Donald Wuerl.

    Has anyone in the Church hierarchy spoken to Congresswoman Peℓσѕι about her latest or previous comments on abortion? This has been, and remains, a scandal.



    Offline Mama ChaCha

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #1 on: December 31, 2013, 08:56:57 AM »
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  • Jesus flipped tables and freaked out over money changers in the temple...
    Imagine what he's going to do to her!!

    Hey, if I ever get a chance, I'll do it for him.  :boxer:
    Maybe, if someone punched her really, really, really hard it will knock out all of the stupid.
    Matthew 6:34
    " Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof."


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #2 on: December 31, 2013, 09:30:27 AM »
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  • OP, where are you getting your "news"?  It seems that often you're posting old news (not that it loses relevancy).
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline SJB

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #3 on: December 31, 2013, 11:53:17 AM »
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  • Rep. Nancy Peℓσѕι, a "Catholic", clearly rebutted by official Church teaching on the issue of abortion and contraception:

    Quote
    REP. Peℓσѕι: I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. And Senator–St. Augustine said at three months. We don’t know. The point is, is that it shouldn’t have an impact on the woman’s right to choose. Roe v. Wade talks about very clear definitions of when the child–first trimester, certain considerations; second trimester; not so third trimester. There’s very clear distinctions. This isn’t about abortion on demand, it’s about a careful, careful consideration of all factors and–to–that a woman has to make with her doctor and her god. And so I don’t think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins. As I say, the Catholic Church for centuries has been discussing this, and there are those who’ve decided…

    MR. BROKAW: The Catholic Church at the moment feels very strongly that it…

    REP. Peℓσѕι: I understand that.

    MR. BROKAW: …begins at the point of conception.

    REP. Peℓσѕι: I understand. And this is like maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy. But it is, it is also true that God has given us, each of us, a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions. And we want abortions to be safe, rare, and reduce the number of abortions. That’s why we have this fight in Congress over contraception. My Republican colleagues do not support contraception. If you want to reduce the number of abortions, and we all do, we must–it would behoove you to support family planning and, and contraception, you would think. But that is not the case. So we have to take–you know, we have to handle this as respectfully–this is sacred ground. We have to handle it very respectfully and not politicize it, as it has been–and I’m not saying Rick Warren did, because I don’t think he did, but others will try to.


    Here is Pope Pius XI, in the Papal Encyclical Casti Connubii, 1930 (78 years ago), condemning abortion:

    Quote
    63. But another very grave crime is to be noted, Venerable Brethren, which regards the taking of the life of the offspring hidden in the mother's womb. Some wish it to be allowed and left to the will of the father or the mother; others say it is unlawful unless there are weighty reasons which they call by the name of medical, social, or eugenic "indication." Because this matter falls under the penal laws of the state by which the destruction of the offspring begotten but unborn is forbidden, these people demand that the "indication," which in one form or another they defend, be recognized as such by the public law and in no way penalized. There are those, moreover, who ask that the public authorities provide aid for these death-dealing operations, a thing, which, sad to say, everyone knows is of very frequent occurrence in some places.

    64. As to the "medical and therapeutic indication" to which, using their own words, we have made reference, Venerable Brethren, however much we may pity the mother whose health and even life is gravely imperiled in the performance of the duty allotted to her by nature, nevertheless what could ever be a sufficient reason for excusing in any way the direct murder of the innocent? This is precisely what we are dealing with here. Whether inflicted upon the mother or upon the child, it is against the precept of God and the law of nature: "Thou shalt not kill:"[50] The life of each is equally sacred, and no one has the power, not even the public authority, to destroy it. It is of no use to appeal to the right of taking away life for here it is a question of the innocent, whereas that right has regard only to the guilty; nor is there here question of defense by bƖσσdshɛd against an unjust aggressor (for who would call an innocent child an unjust aggressor?); again there is not question here of what is called the "law of extreme necessity" which could even extend to the direct killing of the innocent. Upright and skillful doctors strive most praiseworthily to guard and preserve the lives of both mother and child; on the contrary, those show themselves most unworthy of the noble medical profession who encompass the death of one or the other, through a pretense at practicing medicine or through motives of misguided pity.


    The question Peℓσѕι confuses the "abortion issue" with is the question of immediate and mediate animation. This question is concerned with whether the rational human soul is infused immediately upon conception or after some period of time.

    Of course this is a red herring, as the Church has condemned abortion totally independent of any questions about mediate or immediate animation. This is irreformable, of course, and this should be pointed out to Peℓσѕι, even though I suspect it would be in vain.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline icterus

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 12:03:25 PM »
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  • Well, whoever claims she is in communion is lying.  The NO Bishops can all be her little fangirls, and she still has incurred LS excommunication for assisting people in procuring abortions.    


    Offline SJB

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #5 on: December 31, 2013, 12:05:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Canon McCarthy, Problems in Theology, Vol. I, 1956.
    According to scholastic teaching the nature of a being is its essence considered as the source or principle of its activity. When an individual nature is complete in itself, that is, when it subsists in itself and is not communicated to or does not coalesce with any other being, it is called, in scholastic terminology, a suppositum. Actiones sunt suppositorum is a familiar axiom of the schools. It means that supposita are the ultimate source and subject of all activity; that all actions must be predicated of or attributed to supposita. When the suppositum, the complete and incommunicable individual nature, is endowed with reason or intelligence we have what is technically described as a person. Hence the accepted scholastic definition of a person is an individual and incommunicable substance or being of a rational nature.[1] The human person is a composite unified being constituted by the substantial union of body and soul. The union results in a single nature. A complete individual nature cannot be actuated by more than one substantial form. Hence the rational soul is the one and only substantial form of the living human body in all its activities and manifestations.[2]

    It is generally accepted nowadays that the human embryo, immediately on its formation by the union of the male and female elements of conception, is endowed with a rational soul.[3] This is the theory of immediate animation. If this theory be true, then it is obvious that the human embryo, from the first moment of its existence as a living entity, fulfils the scholastic definition of a ‘person.’ From the very beginning of its life the newly-formed being in the fertilized ovum is individualized and completed as a separate incommunicable rational nature or person by the infusion into it by God of its substantial form, the human soul.

    We have said that this theory of immediate animation is generally accepted by present-day writers. We do not propose to repeat here all the proofs advanced in favour of the theory.[4] But we should point out that it is perfectly in accordance with scholastic teaching to hold that the rational soul is, from the very beginning, the principle of life and development of the living nucleus formed at the moment of human conception. That a new living being is formed when the ovum is fertilized is undeniable. It is equally undeniable that this new being grows and develops in virtue of a spontaneous and intrinsic principle of life and that its development is along unified, constant and teleological lines. There is no evidence of any break of continuity, change of direction or substantial diversity in the process. Such an uninterrupted and fixed course of progress and development seems to point clearly to a single, unified and unaltered principle of life right from the beginning.[5] This single principle must be the rational soul, since even those who reject the theory of immediate animation cannot and do not deny that the soul is the principle of embryonic life from a fairly early stage.

    Some few modern writers[6] hold the theory of mediate animation. They say that the human embryo is not immediately animated at conception by a rational soul but only after a certain stage of development has been reached. The defenders of this theory postulate a succession of embryonic forms or souls—vegetative, sensitive, rational—in the development of the new life formed at the moment of human conception. Though we have referred to modern defenders, the theory of mediate animation is very ancient. It is found in the writings of Aristotle and was accepted by St. Thomas. But the modern exposition of the theory differs at some points from that given by St. Thomas.[7]

    In the very early stages of development there is evidence only of vegetative life in the human embryo. At a somewhat later stage indications of sensation and sensitive life appear. But this is not a sufficient ground for postulating the existence of a succession of embryonic souls. In the developed human being the rational soul is the single principle of all life— vegetative and sensitive as well as rational. Surely, then, the rational soul may be the principle of vegetative and sensitive life in the developing embryo?[8] There is no difficulty or contradiction here. Cardinal Mercier, who is, incidentally, a defender of the mediate animation theory, wrote : [9] Il est possible sans doute . . . que dés le priricipe Ia vie de l’embryon vienne d’une âme raisonnable.’ If, as the mediate animationists suggest, there must be evidence of sensitive life before a sensitive soul may be attributed to the human embryo, why must we not wait until there is evidence of rational life and activity before postulating the presence of a rational soul? There is no indication of rational activity in the embryonic stage of foetal development. Nor is there such an indication at any time in the prenatal period, or indeed, for a while after. Yet the defenders of the mediate animation theory admit that the human foetus is endowed with a rational soul long before birth. This admission is, of course, correct as far as it goes, but it does not fit logically into the usual exposition of the theory of mediate animation. The fact obviously is that the absence of rational activity is no argument against the presence of the rational soul. The human embryo can be described as a person, a rational being, if it has the radical power of reason and intelligence, even though this power may be undeveloped or in abeyance. In the early stages the embryo has not the external shape or species of a human being. But, again, this is not a valid proof that the embryo is not initially endowed with a human soul. If it were a valid proof, would it not be logical to hold also that the ostenta referred to in canon 748[10] do not possess a rational soul?

    It would follow from the theory of mediate animation that the human embryo is not a person in the scholastic sense until it has reached the stage of development at which the rational soul is infused.

    Anima rationalis probabiliter infunditur tantum quando foetus radicalem omnino mutationem subit et externam acquirit speciem hominis quod fit versus finem tertii mensis : tune utique adest ratio cur dicatur animari anima rationali.[11]

    In this theory, then, the deliberate expulsion, from the mother’s womb, of the human embryo, before the end of the third month of pregnancy, would not be the crime of homicide. This expulsion, however, as the defenders of the mediate animation theory hasten to assure us, is intrinsically and gravely sinful.[12] It is, they say, the destruction of a living being which is homo in potentia and, indeed, in potentia propinquissima.

    As we have indicated earlier, we hold strongly for the theory of immediate animation. But, of course, we cannot claim any finality for our judgment. And we should add that, whichever theory be held, the principle of the inviolability of the life of the human embryo must be preserved intact. In a public address[13] Pope Pius XII said: ‘Innocent human life, in whatsoever condition it is found, is withdrawn, from the very first moment of its existence from any direct deliberate attack. This is a fundamental right of the human person which is of universal value in the Christian conception of life; hence as valid for the life still hidden in the womb of the mother as for the life already born and developing independently of her; as much opposed to direct abortion as to the direct killing of the child before, during and after its birth. Whatever foundation there may be for the distinction between these various phases of the development of life still unborn in profane and ecclesiastical law and in certain civil and penal consequences, all these cases involve a grave and unlawful attack upon the inviolability of human life.’

    [1]Cf. Maher, Psychology, p. 521; cf. p. 343.
    [2]Cf. Definition of the Council of Vienna, Denzinger-Umberg, Ench. Symb., n. 481
    [3]Cf. Beraza, De Deo Creante, n. 1041.
    [4]Cf. I. E. Record, xl (1932), pp. 449-60.
    [5]Cf. Pujiula, Do Medicina Pastorali, n. 98.
    [6]Cf. Merkelbach, Quaestiones de Embryologia, pp. 66—7.
    [7]Cf. Messenger, Evolution and Theology, p. 88.
    [8] ‘Entia non sunt multiplicanda sine necessitate.’
    [9] Cours de Philosophie, Psychologie, ii, p. 336.
    [10] Monstra et ostenta semper baptizentur saltem sub conditione.’
    [11] Merkelbach, op. cit., p. 67.
    [12] Cf. Merkelbach, Quaestiones de Embryologia, ii, p. 27.
    [13] Address to ‘The Family Front,’ 26 November, 1951. Translation is from Catholic Docuмents, vi, p. 29.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 12:45:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: icterus
    Well, whoever claims she is in communion is lying.  The NO Bishops can all be her little fangirls, and she still has incurred LS excommunication for assisting people in procuring abortions.


    Why do you say she falls under a LS excommunication?
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline icterus

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #7 on: December 31, 2013, 12:50:03 PM »
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  • You quoted the answer to your question in your post.  That seem typical for you.  


    Offline SJB

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #8 on: December 31, 2013, 01:10:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: icterus
    You quoted the answer to your question in your post.  That seem typical for you.  


    Well then, it should be easy for you to point out.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Petertherock

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 06:40:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: icterus
    Well, whoever claims she is in communion is lying.  The NO Bishops can all be her little fangirls, and she still has incurred LS excommunication for assisting people in procuring abortions.


    Why do you say she falls under a LS excommunication?


    Moreover, who can lift that sentence? The Bishop right?


    Offline icterus

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 08:03:51 AM »
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  • Quote
    Well then, it should be easy for you to point out.


    It is even easier for you to google "Canon law abortion"...so I know you have some silly, stupid ulterior motive that you think is intelligent and sneaky.  I'm tired of you, so I won't play.  


    Offline crossbro

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #11 on: January 01, 2014, 09:53:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: icterus
    Well, whoever claims she is in communion is lying.  The NO Bishops can all be her little fangirls, and she still has incurred LS excommunication for assisting people in procuring abortions.


    Why do you say she falls under a LS excommunication?




    Quote
    “The penalty of excommunication for abortion extends to the mother, all medical personnel, anyone who offers the mother moral or financial support to abort, as well as those who publicly campaign for legalized abortion. Incidentally, no formal notification of such excommunication is necessary, as it takes effect as soon as the action is performed.” p. 77 The Catholic Answer Book vol 1, Rev. Peter M.J. Stravinskas PH.D S.T.D.
    [/size]

    Offline SJB

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 08:56:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: crossbro
    Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: icterus
    Well, whoever claims she is in communion is lying.  The NO Bishops can all be her little fangirls, and she still has incurred LS excommunication for assisting people in procuring abortions.


    Why do you say she falls under a LS excommunication?


    Quote
    “The penalty of excommunication for abortion extends to the mother, all medical personnel, anyone who offers the mother moral or financial support to abort, as well as those who publicly campaign for legalized abortion. Incidentally, no formal notification of such excommunication is necessary, as it takes effect as soon as the action is performed.” p. 77 The Catholic Answer Book vol 1, Rev. Peter M.J. Stravinskas PH.D S.T.D.
    [/size]


    I believe that prior to the 1917 CIC, the mother was NOT included in the excommunication. Those who actually helped procure the abortion were, but they had to actually be involved in the actual procuring of the act. Those who gave support in various ways were not necessarily included.

    It's not as clear-cut as one might think. Even things considered a grave sin didn't always involve excommunication.





    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 09:12:50 AM »
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  • THE CASUIST, VOL IV, Woywod, 1912.

    X. EXCOMMUNICATION ON ACCOUNT OF ABORTION

    Bertha is urged by her husband Titius to take a certain kind of medicine in order to procure an abortion. She hesitates for some time, and finally consults her mother about it. The mother is more or less non-committal. She prefers not to interfere. She does not advise the abortion, fearing the consequences to her daughter; neither does she endeavor to persuade the daughter against com mitting the act. Finally, Bertha makes up her mind to take the medicine, to the satisfaction of her husband. The consequence is that an abortion follows, and Bertha very nearly loses her life. The experience has been a very dear one, and all three are very repentant. They are all Catholics. Are they all excommunicated ? Are special faculties required to absolve them? Answer. — Let us consider, first, the case of Bertha, who takes the medicine and causes the abortion. Does a mother who procures an abortion on herself incur excommunication ? It seemed probable that she does not. It is quite true that Pius IX., in the bull Apostolicae Sedis, 1869, expressly says that "procurantes abortum, effectu secuto" incur excommunication, and that the excommunication is reserved to the bishops. Now it would appear that if any one ought to be numbered among the procurantes abortum, it surely would be the mother who procures an abortion on herself. Nevertheless, there are very grave theologians, among others St. Alfonsus, who maintain that the mother herself is not included among the "procurantes abortum" whom the papal decrees punish by excommunication.

    They do not affirm that it is altogether certain that the bull Aposto- licae Sedis of Pius IX. does not include the mother herself among the "procurantes abortum" who incur excommunication, but they do maintain that it is probable that the bull does not include her. Their line of argument is this : In all the papal bulls anterior to the bull Apostolicae Sedis of Pius IX., 1869, in which excommunication is decreed against procurantes abortum, a distinction is made between the mother herself and the other procurantes abortum, and the mother was never included among those who incurred excommunication for procuring abortion, even though the term "procurantes abortum" was always employed in such papal decrees. St. Alfonsus considers the opinion which says that the mother herself does not incur the excommunication as altogether probable, by reason of the number and weight of the theologians who defend it; and if the reasons on which it rests be considered, he thought it far more probable than the opinion which maintains that the mother does incur the excommunication. At the time that Pius IX. issued the bull Apostolicae Sedis in 1869, and long before it, the term "procurantes abortum" had come to have a very special and restricted meaning, excluding the mother from the number of those who were included in the term procurantes abortum. When Pius IX., therefore, used the term procurantes abortum, in the bull Apostolicae Sedis, he was cognizant of this special and technical sense in which it was generally used and under stood by the theologians and canonists, and as he used it in his de cree without any qualification or explanation, he is justly supposed to have used it in the peculiar sense in which it was used in the law, and, therefore, that he used it in its sense of excluding the mother. Weight is added to this view, if we bear in mind that the purpose of Pius IX. in publishing the bull Apostolicae Sedis in 1869was to curtail both the number and the application of the excommunications at that time prevailing in the Church. It is probable, therefore, that Bertha did not incur the excommunication decreed by Pius IX. against "procurantes abortum." Would a simple confessor be justified, therefore, in absolving Bertha without first procuring special faculties, at least ad cautelam, in case, de facto, Bertha did incur the excommunication? In that case, a simple confessor would not require any special faculties to absolve Bertha, neque ad validam, neque ad licitam absolutionem. There exists here a dubium juris, that is, a doubt about the interpretation of the law. Now whenever there exists a dubium juris, that is, whenever the theologians do not agree as to the meaning and interpretation of a law, whether, namely, the law deprives the confessor of jurisdiction in the confessional in certain cases or not, then the confessor may absolve validly and licitly in such cases, and if, de facto, the case should be reserved, then the Church supplies the necessary jurisdiction to absolve from it. In this way the jurisdiction of the simple confessor which is in Bertha's case theoretically doubtful, became practically certain ; and Bertha is absolved not jurisdictione dubia, sed jurisdictione practice certa. In dubio juris, Ecclesia supplet. So much as to the history of the case as it refers to the mother. The new Code besides repeating the words of the Bull "Apostolicae Sedis," adds that the mother is not excepted from the excommunication. Thus Canon 2350. The other principles here explained are not changed by the Code. But, again, let us suppose that the woman or mother who pro cures an abortion on herself is included in the Bull of Pius IX. The case is a papal reservation and ignorance of the reservation saves a person from incurring papal censure. For what the Pope reserves is not the sin, but the censure; in our case, the excommunication. The purpose of the Holy See is to deter from the sin of abortion by punishing it by excommunication and reserving the excommunication. But if a woman does not know of the excommunication attaching to abortion or that it is reserved, how can the excommunication act as a deterrent? If the purpose of the censure fails, then the censure itself fails, for it becomes useless. In the case before us, although Bertha may have been fully aware of the gravity of the sin she was committing, still if she did not know that she incurred excommunication by it or that the excommunication was reserved, she did not, in fact, incur the excommunication, and no special faculties are required to absolve her.

    In regard to the husband, Titius, who urged his wife to take the medicine for the purpose of causing an abortion, it is certain, that under the law, as it existed up to the time of Pius IX., he incurred the excommunication. For in the bull Effraenatam, of Sixtus V., not only procurantes abortum incurred excommunication, but also all persons who by assistance, or counsel, or favor, aided or abetted in procuring abortions, provided they acted knowingly. In the Bull Apostolicae Sedis, Pius IX restricts this excommunication to the procurantes abortum. Therefore, all those who only cooper ate but do not procure the abortion, do not incur the excommunication. According to Pope Sixtus V., these are to be considered as procurantes abortum, "qui de cetera per se, aut interpositas personas abortus seu foetus immaturi ejectionem procuraverint, percussioni- bus, venenis, medicamentis, potionibus, oneribus, laboribusque mulieri pregnanti impositis, ac aliis etiam incognitis vel maxime ex- quisitis rationibus, ita ut reapse abortus inde secutus fuerit." The sense of the procurantes abortum of the bull of Pius IX. must be gathered from these words of the Bull Effraenatam of Sixtus V. According to these words of Sixtus V., it would be difficult to include Titius among the procurantes abortum, since all he did was to urge his wife to take the potion. He must be numbered among the cooperantes ad abortum, but not among the procurantes abortum.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    Abortion: Nancy Peℓσѕιs "sacred grounds"
    « Reply #14 on: January 02, 2014, 09:28:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: icterus
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    Well then, it should be easy for you to point out.


    It is even easier for you to google "Canon law abortion"...so I know you have some silly, stupid ulterior motive that you think is intelligent and sneaky.  I'm tired of you, so I won't play.  


    I did. Only I narrowed it to Google Books. Even more sneaky, eh?

    The quote I see given to support your view is from Peter M.J. Stravinskas. Do you trust it?
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil