Author Topic: A Warning From Bishop Williamson (Read 6442 times)

s2srea · « **Reply #60 on:** March 13, 2012, 01:52:03 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

You are quite right. It is quite natural to do this. A billion Catholics along with the rest of the world do so. He was seemingly elected, in the eyes of the world, validly, he wears what Popes wear, makes the claim, and all accept him as such. No doubt.

Who are the two you respect?

That would be Hobbledehoy, and PereJoseph.

(Don't get a big head you two... lol- just kidding :) )

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #61 on:** March 13, 2012, 02:06:02 PM »

Quote from: Emerentiana

Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: Emerentiana
Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: Emerentiana
Quote
"Do they really want us in the Church or not
[/b]

The problem with the SSPX is that they dont know where the church is.

If you read and reread my post, Stubborn, maybe it will sink in.
If the Church in Rome is the :Seat of the Antichrist" why would the SSPX want to be part of it?

And YOU know where the Church is?

Yeah, I know where the church is. It resides in the remnant faithful, which consists of bishops, priests, religious and lay people who adhere to ALL the truths the Church has always taught. Numbers are not important. The church is without a head at present.
I knew this way before you were born Caminus, as I went thru the trauma of Vatican 11 in the 60's.
Its no different today.
At that time Paul V1 usurped the chair of Peter, and obliterated the mass. Today we have the 4th successive usurper in the chair.
The magisterium is heretical, and there are very few validly elected bishops in the world. Electing a true pope would not be possible. This is the great apostasy.

Your opinion can't be correct because it destroys the nature and function of the Catholic Church. To say that ordinary jurisdiction is gone means that apostolic succession has ended; to say that the Church cannot elect a Pope is to claim that the Catholic Church has become impotent in fulfillinge its divine mandate. The "catholic church" that you describe is not absolutely identical with the Catholic Church of fifty years ago (I realize that numbers don't matter, but your statements go far more than mere numbers); the Church of today has lost continuity with the Church of yesterday. This is certainly heretical, therefore you are obliged to revise your opinions accordingly.

Caminus,
My beliefs are Not heretical. We still have true priests and bishops left in the world. They could elect a pope. Like I said, you have to know where the church really is........it is NOT represented by the heretical bishops, priests, and the reigning antipope. Do YOU know where the Church is....by your statements you dont.

Are you saying you believe in an invisible Church?

Funny that sedes end up side by side with Karl Rahner.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #62 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:05:42 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

History is strewn with examples of men who have fallen into reactionary positions that are as equally has harmful as that against which they had reacted.

Speaking hypothetically, let's say Benedict says something like "Christ is not devine" or "Mary was not born without original sin". What should we do if such an undeniable heresy were to be uttered? Not trying to start anything, I'm just curious what your answer is. Would you say the reaction from laymen should be the same, or would you consider further action?

VinnyF · « **Reply #63 on:** March 14, 2012, 02:26:40 AM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: Caminus
History is strewn with examples of men who have fallen into reactionary positions that are as equally has harmful as that against which they had reacted.

Speaking hypothetically, let's say Benedict says something like "Christ is not devine" or "Mary was not born without original sin". What should we do if such an undeniable heresy were to be uttered? Not trying to start anything, I'm just curious what your answer is. Would you say the reaction from laymen should be the same, or would you consider further action?

A layman can not immediately do anything in that case except make your concerns known to the Holy Father. The church provides a procedure as a remedy in such a case and it does not involve the laity. It is up to the Bishops and sitting Cardinals to bring the Pope to an understanding of his heresy. If the Pope refuses to abjure his heresy and the remedies have run their course, it is up to the hierarchy to formally depose the pope.

Your question should be, what if the hierarchy refuses to bring the pope into this process, or, what if the hierarchy agrees with the pope. As a layman, the only choice you have to make is to not follow the heresy, as you are bound to reject it. There is no precedent for a layperson to personally adjudicate the heresy and depose the pope. But one certainly has an obligation to reject the heresy of the pope and/or any other priest, bishop, or angel that holds that heresy. And then, you must continue to remain Catholic in the same way you are now doing.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #64 on:** March 14, 2012, 11:23:01 AM »

I thought this might be interesting:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10755a.htm

At the end of 428, or at latest in the early part of 429, Nestorius preached the first of his famous sermons against the word Theotokos, and detailed his Antiochian doctrine of the Incarnation. The first to raise his voice against it was Eusebius, a layman, afterwards Bishop of Dorylaeum and the accuser of Eutyches.

I believe it is important for lay-people to hold the clergy accountable. Of course their can be over zealousness in this regard but I think under-zealousness is much more common.