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Author Topic: Another gift for the rabbi  (Read 3194 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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Re: Another gift for the rabbi
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2019, 02:16:08 PM »
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  • Pope Francis does not take the same view as Pope St. Pius X.
    This is a classic example of equivocation, i.e. using the same terms but with different meanings ( a favorite strategy of modernism).  When Pius X spoke of being on good terms with Jews, he was talking about basic civility.  It is probably fair to say that Pius X would carry on a conversation with a Jew without screaming and spitting at him and that Pius X has this in common with Francis (and most people). It is highly dishonest to describe this "taking the same view".

    On the contrary, Pius X uncompromisingly held to a traditional Catholic understanding of Judaism, including supercessionism.  This is not the view of Pope Francis at all.  Here is a quote from Francis in an 2014 interview https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-interview-with-la-vanguardia---full-text-45430:

    Interviewer:  You told me a year ago that “within every Christian there is a Jew.”
    Francis: Perhaps it would be more correct to say “you cannot live your Christianity, you cannot be a real Christian, if you do not recognize your Jєωιѕн roots.” I don’t speak of Jєωιѕн in the sense of the Semitic race but rather in the religious sense. I think that inter-religious dialogue needs to deepen in this, in Christianity’s Jєωιѕн root and in the Christian flowering of Judaism. I understand it is a challenge, a hot potato, but it can be done as brothers. I pray every day the divine office every day with the Psalms of David. We do the 150 psalms in one week. My prayer is Jєωιѕн and I have the Eucharist, which is Christian.  

    The view of Pope Francis on Judaism is nothing like that of any pope before Vatican II. None of them would say anything like this.  You post this quote time after time as if it supported your claims, Poche, but you have been told many, many times that it does not.  This is not an honest mistake but a choice to ignore that people here have corrected your errors.  
    Bravo on all counts!
    Especially: "You post this quote time after time as if it supported your claims, Poche, but you have been told many, many times that it does not.  This is not an honest mistake but a choice to ignore that people here have corrected your errors."  

    Jorge and his Judaizing accomplices consistently and deceptively conflate contemporary тαℓмυdic Judaism (an offshoot of Pharisaism) with Mosaic Judaism, a once-true, but no-longer-true religion.

    Catholicism "has roots" and is the fulfillment of MOSAIC Judaism, but we have NO ROOTS IN тαℓмυdIC JUDAISM. тαℓмυdic Judaism is a POST-CHRISTIAN and ANTI-CHRISTIAN religion.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Another gift for the rabbi
    « Reply #16 on: November 20, 2019, 08:24:15 AM »
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  • Jorge and his Judaizing accomplices consistently and deceptively conflate contemporary тαℓмυdic Judaism (an offshoot of Pharisaism) with Mosaic Judaism, a once-true, but no-longer-true religion.

    Catholicism "has roots" and is the fulfillment of MOSAIC Judaism, but we have NO ROOTS IN тαℓмυdIC JUDAISM. тαℓмυdic Judaism is a POST-CHRISTIAN and ANTI-CHRISTIAN religion.

    Exactly.  This is a basic historical fact that needs to be grasped in order to make any sense of the topic. 

    The Judaism that is the root of Christianity is based on the Old Testament Scripture, is centered on the Temple, and involves a system of sacrifices.  None of these are characteristics of тαℓмυdic Judaism.  In this religion, тαℓмυd, a collection of commentary and interpretation, has the authoritative role rather Sacred Scripture.  The Temple was destroyed and there are no longer animal sacrifices.  

    As you say, it developed from Pharisaism and so Our Lord's description (from chapter 7 of the Gospel of Mark)  applies to both:
     
    "And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and precepts of men[8] For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the washing of pots and of cups: and many other things you do like to these. [9] And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition. " 

    (I think I just figured out out that Mark79 gets his screen name from Mark 7:9.)


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Another gift for the rabbi
    « Reply #17 on: November 20, 2019, 11:36:53 AM »
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  • (I think I just figured out out that Mark79 gets his screen name from Mark 7:9.)
    Precisely so! :-)

    Offline poche

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    Re: Another gift for the rabbi
    « Reply #18 on: November 21, 2019, 01:46:48 AM »
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  • Pope Francis does not take the same view as Pope St. Pius X.
    This is a classic example of equivocation, i.e. using the same terms but with different meanings ( a favorite strategy of modernism).  When Pius X spoke of being on good terms with Jews, he was talking about basic civility.  It is probably fair to say that Pius X would carry on a conversation with a Jew without screaming and spitting at him and that Pius X has this in common with Francis (and most people). It is highly dishonest to describe this "taking the same view".

    On the contrary, Pius X uncompromisingly held to a traditional Catholic understanding of Judaism, including supercessionism.  This is not the view of Pope Francis at all.  Here is a quote from Francis in an 2014 interview https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-interview-with-la-vanguardia---full-text-45430:

    Interviewer:  You told me a year ago that “within every Christian there is a Jew.”
    Francis: Perhaps it would be more correct to say “you cannot live your Christianity, you cannot be a real Christian, if you do not recognize your Jєωιѕн roots.” I don’t speak of Jєωιѕн in the sense of the Semitic race but rather in the religious sense. I think that inter-religious dialogue needs to deepen in this, in Christianity’s Jєωιѕн root and in the Christian flowering of Judaism. I understand it is a challenge, a hot potato, but it can be done as brothers. I pray every day the divine office every day with the Psalms of David. We do the 150 psalms in one week. My prayer is Jєωιѕн and I have the Eucharist, which is Christian.  

    The view of Pope Francis on Judaism is nothing like that of any pope before Vatican II. None of them would say anything like this.  You post this quote time after time as if it supported your claims, Poche, but you have been told many, many times that it does not.  This is not an honest mistake but a choice to ignore that people here have corrected your errors.  
    This is very much in line with what Pope St Pius said when he said that the Jews are the foundation of the Catholic Church. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: Another gift for the rabbi
    « Reply #19 on: November 21, 2019, 01:49:08 AM »
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  • “Outmoded” traditions like the 10 commandments?

    Pope Francis just met with a lesbian recently when he isn’t meeting ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs.  Maybe he should read the Bible because you aren’t supposed to hang with sinners who refuse to repent New Testament.
    Jesus said “Go and sin no more. “.
    Jesus said to preach the Gospel to all nations. How is one to preach the Gospel to somebody if we refuse to talk to them? 


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Another gift for the rabbi
    « Reply #20 on: November 21, 2019, 02:42:26 AM »
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  • This is very much in line with what Pope St Pius said when he said that the Jews are the foundation of the Catholic Church.
    Even through the Gospel of St. John you can appreciate how the meaning of “the Jews” changed from meaning the whole of the people to meaning those who conspired against Jesus, murdered Him, and now defame Him and persecute His Church and His new Chosen people, His Believers. 
    In days when Catholics were well-catechized, even grammar school Catholics knew these things. Now Catholics are mis-catechized by Judaizers like Jorge and his stooges like Poche who LIE conflating the once-true-but-no-longer-true Mosaic Judaism with never-a-true-religion тαℓмυdic Judaism.
    Poche has been repeatedly told this, but he continues to spread his serial, habitual, willful LIES.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Another gift for the rabbi
    « Reply #21 on: November 21, 2019, 02:44:07 AM »
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  • Jesus said to preach the Gospel to all nations. How is one to preach the Gospel to somebody if we refuse to talk to them?
    As if Jesus considered it "preaching the Gospel" to confirm people in their sins, like sodomy and Judaism?