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Author Topic: A Novus Ordo Priest: "Why I Love Trad Catholics"  (Read 1218 times)

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Offline Geremia

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A Novus Ordo Priest: "Why I Love Trad Catholics"
« on: January 17, 2014, 10:04:39 PM »
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  • Why I Love Trad Catholics
    Quote from: Fr. Dwight Longenecker
    Yet again in the blogosphere there have been some storms about traditionalist Catholics. “Was Michael Voris attacked by this person or that person? We must rally to his defense!” “Is Michael Voris a real traditionalist or not?” “Did Pope Francis attack traditionalists by calling them ‘self absorbed,  promethean, neo pelagians?”


    While I have criticized certain trends within the traditionalist movement from time to time, I’ve always tried to also express my admiration and respect for the majority of traditionalist Catholics who are good and faithful sons and daughters of the church.


    I’m not a traditionalist. To quote Fr.Z, I just want to “say the black and do the red”. In other words, I want to live my life as a Catholic priest where I am today in this situation in the twenty first century–realizing that things are not perfect–but knowing that they never have been. Within that I try to be faithful to my vocation as a Benedictine oblate and a Diocesan priest.


    But while I am not a traditionalist, I appreciate them and here’s why:


    One of the riches of the Catholic Church is her  unity and diversity. Within the Catholic big tent we have different religious orders, ecclesial movements and associations of the faithful. Some of these are formally organized and recognized–others are more amorphous but still identifiable. We have different tastes, different trends, different tendencies. The Lord has given us many ways to follow Christ. Each of these different traditions, spiritualities, emphases and disciplines offer particular strengths and weaknesses. Each of them have a particular charism and something to offer the whole church.


    The reason I love traditionalists is the same reason I love Franciscans or Charismatic Catholics or Jesuits or Missionaries of Charity or Friars of the Renewal or Priests for Life or Benedictines or Legionnaires….and on and on and on. Each of these groups or sub-categories in the church offer the whole church a particular vision and aspect of the whole truth, and members of each group serve the church best by being faithful to Christ within their path. The traditionalists offer us a reminder of the hermeneutic of continuity. They work hard to bring forward the best in our Catholic traditions of spirituality, liturgy, music, art and architecture. They remind us of the call to radical discipleship and the need to love the Lord with our whole heart.


    When traditionalists live out their traditional Catholic faith with zeal, joy and love for others they will evangelize and grow the church in a truly authentic and wonderful way, but this can also be said of Catholics in any of the other sub groups. A radiantly authentic Franciscan or Benedictine–a joyful Missionary of Charity, Dominican or Jesuit will do the same. The key thing to remember is that we are following Christ the Lord. He comes first–not our particular sub-set–no matter how beautiful, good and true it happens to be.


    Are there negativities within the traditionalist movement? Are there crazies and dangerous extremists? Of course. So what? Every sub group in the Catholic Church (every parish and family for that matter) has crazies and dangerous extremists. It’s part of the wonderful width of the Catholic Church. What each sub group needs to realize is that the individuals in the sub group best serve the church by being as faithful as possible to their charism and calling, while not expecting everyone else to be like them. It is wrong for a person who is keen on Cursillo, for example, to demand that everyone in the parish go on a Cursillo retreat. We can’t all be monks in the desert nor should we be. It is right for Charismatic Catholics to be gung ho on the gifts of the Spirit, for example, but not right to expect every other baptized person to speak in tongues and love praise and worship songs.


    This is not to endorse a kind of Catholic relativism in which everybody should just do as they please. Within the diversity we have unity in our obedient allegiance to the magisterium. There is an enormous amount of latitude in the Catholic Church, but there boundaries. History shows that any sub group can become corrupt, twisted, heretical or schismatic. It happens. This is why all of the sub groups in the Catholic Church are to be committed not only first and foremost to following Jesus Christ, but also being submissive to the authority of his Vicar on earth. Mother Church properly corrects, adjusts and directs both the individuals and the groups within the church. In this way our diversity is celebrated while our unity is affirmed.


    I realize that traditionalists may not appreciate my take on the matter. They may say, “But we are not a sub group of the church. The Latin Mass is the mass of the ages. This is what all Catholics used to do. We’re keeping the true faith! The others are all wrong.” I understand that opinion, but that’s not actually the teaching of the Catholic Church. Like it or not, the second Vatican Council has taken place. Like it or not, by decree or by popular practice, changes have happened. The vernacular Mass is accepted as the Ordinary Form while the Latin Mass is appreciated and valued as the Extraordinary Form. This means that the rituals in Latin are an accepted alternative. I, for one, am glad the Latin rituals are treasured and promoted by traditionalists. They are a gift to the whole church.
    (source)

    The [combox comments are interesting.
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    Offline Charlemagne

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    A Novus Ordo Priest: "Why I Love Trad Catholics"
    « Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 11:11:02 PM »
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  • Not impressed. He "loves" faux traditionalists as long as they keep to themselves in their little side chapel in the Church of Nice. "Big Tent Catholicism" and all that. Blech. :barf:
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline Geremia

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    A Novus Ordo Priest: "Why I Love Trad Catholics"
    « Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 11:33:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    Not impressed. He "loves" faux traditionalists as long as they keep to themselves in their little side chapel in the Church of Nice. "Big Tent Catholicism" and all that. Blech. :barf:
    Have you ever noticed how the modern "Catholic" translations completely butcher Romans 12:16?:

    “Have the same attitude toward all.” (NAB, ’70).
    “Have the same regard for one another.” (NAB, ’86).
    “Live in harmony with one another.” (CRSV, ’66).
    “Treat everyone with equal kindness.” (JB, ’66).

    Rheims New Testament: “Being of one mind one towards another.

    There's no "Big Tent Catholicism" in the D-R, Deo gratias.

    Oddly, the Protestant translations, overall, do better!:

    “Be of the same mind toward one another.” (NKJV, ’85).
    “Live in harmony with one another.” (NIV, ’78).
    “Live in harmony with one another.” (NRSV, ’89).
    “Be of the same mind toward one another.” (NASV, ’77).
    “Care as much about each other as about yourselves.” (NEB, ’76)

    (Source: Which Bible Should You Read?)
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    Offline crossbro

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    A Novus Ordo Priest: "Why I Love Trad Catholics"
    « Reply #3 on: January 18, 2014, 12:09:54 AM »
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  • I am glad you love us Father, I for one loathe you.

    Traditionalists are not a gift of the Church, we are the Church.

    All of this stuff you love father- you can go find it at another church,we have nowhere else to go, so you leave.

    Offline soulguard

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    A Novus Ordo Priest: "Why I Love Trad Catholics"
    « Reply #4 on: January 18, 2014, 04:22:35 AM »
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  • Its amazing how he thinks that people care what  he thinks. 99% of his congregation dont believe what he faith stands for, a supposed merit of diversity. Before vatican 2 it was 100% compliance, now it is almost 100% rebellion, how can he think vatican 2 came from the church. :heretic:


    Offline Man of the West

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    A Novus Ordo Priest: "Why I Love Trad Catholics"
    « Reply #5 on: January 18, 2014, 08:58:27 AM »
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  • Justifying everything except crass evil and contradicting himself in the process, Fauxther Longenecker treats liturgical and disciplinary chaos as a norm, even a "strength," of the Church. He laughably asserts that Charismatic Catholics are a legitimate "sub group" of the Church alongside Traditionalists, and claims to love them as well. Does he not realize that Charismatics and Traditionalists, quite apart from the question of who is right and who is wrong, cannot possibly belong to the same Church by their own internal criteria? Longenecker seems to have some distorted variant of the Pauline "Many Members" disquisition in mind (cf. I Corinthians XII-XIV) when making his ridiculous love-speech, but he has left out the very head of the argument, the most important premise, viz. "For in one spirit were we all baptized into one body..." His is no longer a treatment of different spiritual gifts but of different bodies. I'm surprised he didn't entitle his article "St. Paul the [Big] Tentmaker."

    One has to wonder what exactly, in Fr. Longenecker's mind, is the real Church to which all these sub groups belong. Where are the boundaries which he still insists are present, despite their allowing for a uselessly capacious degree of latitude? His first criterion, that we need to love Christ with all our heart, is true but insufficiently illuminating in this regard and reduces to mere sentimentality in his mouth; and his second criterion, that we must be obedient to the magisterium, simply begs the question. Yet he offers us a clue as to his real beliefs in his seventh paragraph: it is, of course, above all necessary to be "joyful" and "radiantly authentic." That's the way to grow the Church, don't you know? Oh, and besides, all you Traditional exclusivists out there, the Second Vatican Council has happened, so get over it!

    You will notice this confused and oscillatory tone amongst all the defenders of the conciliar religion's hermeneutic of continuity (the most vocal of whom tend to be former protestant ministers): first, an almost opiated paean to inclusivity, followed quickly by a measure of sanctimonious piping concerning the alleged dangers of a too-zealous attachment to Tradition. There really isn't anything else they could say; their manner of speaking and thinking is dictated to them by the exigencies of their position. How else to make it appear as though the Conciliar Church and the Catholic Church were the same body? How else to advance the hermeneutic of continuity without abandoning the reforms? Here also we see Longenecker's modernism at work in the way in which he organizes and disposes of his data, for it is clear from his discussion of "sub groups" that he mentally arranges the several  "charisms" he identifies into a sort of cladistic diagram in an effort to demonstrate their derivation from a common source through their display of homologous structures. Can ecuмenism be far behind? Would that those archaeologists of knowledge, our contemporary doyens of Lit-Crit who are so often dismissed as the enemies of truth and reason, but condescend to sift through the docuмents of the Conciliar Church! From what unlikely quarter might salvation come if they were to apply their deconstructive methodologies to Summorum Pontificuм! For even secularists today are better at perceiving the disconnect between Tradition and conciliarism than many Catholics.

    Finally, let us take note once and for all of just what Traditional Catholicism signifies in the minds of the conciliar religionists and their priests. It is nothing but a charism, one of the "many ways[!] given by the Lord to follow Christ," the principal purpose of which is to offer a reminder of Catholic traditions of liturgy, architecture, and art, as if we were the curators of a Catholic museum. In other words we are simply "Extraordinary Form" - that execrable little phrase mooted by Benedict XVI in an effort to explain away the illogicalities inherent in his VII sect - the extraordinary form of the Novus Ordo, the traditional practice but the conciliar attitude, the latter of which alone is stipulated as unalterable truth.

    And why not? Does it hinder the conciliar religion at all to allow Tradition to coexist with it in this neutered form? Of course not. The modern mind adheres to a form of religion but denies the power thereof. If the priest is no longer a sacerdos ordained to offer sacrifices to God, to be as it were a mediator between the people and their God, but only a member of a bardic class of pious storytellers, what does it hurt to add one more story to the chronicle, a memory of a dream that once was our Church? It does not hurt them; it hurts us, who wept as we remembered Sion.
    Confronting modernity from the depths of the human spirit, in communion with Christ the King.