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Offline Matthew

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A letter from a Home Aloner
« on: June 14, 2016, 01:40:18 PM »
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  • From the mailbag:

    Quote
    Still searching and praying, but it seems that, shh, it MIGHT boil down to
    Home Alone v. Novus Ordo, and I'm beginning to have my doubts about Home Alone.
    The Keys were given to the pope to bind and loose, and He didn't qualify that.
    Need to seek out more N.O. priests and parishioners, using Our Lord's maxim to judge
    by their fruits. Not everyone is a no-good dirty-dog modernist in the Novus Ordo.
    Too many bad fruits in traditional groups (admitted with sadness.)
    Long-time sede friend, no dummy, just went back to Novus Ordo.
    How ironic, Rad Trad reverts to the Novus Ordo?
    I'll keep you posted, if you'd like.

    PS: Could you talk me out of this with 'just the facts, ma'am'?
    Pray for me.
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    Offline Matthew

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #1 on: June 14, 2016, 01:40:33 PM »
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  • The fact that he went from Sede to Novus Ordo actually doesn't surprise me. It's an old tactic of the devil. Push a man too far to the right, until he snaps all the way around to the extreme left.

    1. The Church's highest law is the salvation of souls. The Pope's power IS circuмscribed (limited). He has no authority to cause destruction to the Church or to souls. When he TRIES to do so, he is exceeding his authority, and is acting as a flawed, private individual. The Pope is the Vicar of Christ; he is not Christ Himself.

    2. If you would listen to the saner voices in Tradition (like myself, Fr. Zendejas, Bishop Williamson) rather than the extremists (Sedevacantists, Fr. Pfeiffer, Traditio.com, Novus Ordo Watch, etc.) you wouldn't be tempted by these thoughts. Because the sane voices I mentioned keep everything in balance, including the FACT that not everyone in the Novus Ordo is a "no good dirty dog modernist". However, even the good ones in the N.O. are objectively wrong and ignorant, and they risk being deceived and losing their souls. The N.O. Mass is defective and deficient even on a good day.

    3. The Church is our Mother, and certainly has measures in place for a Crisis such as the one we're living in. For example, supplied jurisdiction for confession and Matrimony. She wouldn't leave us without valid Masses and Sacraments for 45 years. What kind of mother would that be? I want NO PART of any heartless mother who would do that.

    4. The Novus Ordo is obviously noxious, as can be judged by its fruits. You should never place yourself in that milieu. There is no command of God or men that says you or I should EVER have to sit through a Novus Ordo Mass and put our souls (and those of our children) at risk. Give the handshake of peace, receive communion in the hand from a lay "Eucharistic Minister", listen to the sage ministrations of some layman for a "sermon", follow the lead of some middle aged woman as she directs the (I forget what it's called). And of course there are also the altar girls, which distract the men. Not to mention the grave defects of the Mass itself.

    If you are a Trad, you should know that the Novus Ordo is not an option.

    Yes, Our Lord made His famous promise to Peter. But that's why this is a Crisis in the Church. Did you think +ABL and others were joking when they called this a grave crisis, the worst the Church had ever seen? If the Crisis weren't genuinely confusing, what criticism would you have for the millions of Catholics who have been confused over the past 50 years? Were they malicious or culpably ignorant about what they should do? Why have so many Catholics opted for "Tradition"?

    If you are willing (or even quick) to believe that ALL THOSE TRADITIONAL CATHOLICS during the past 50 years were either stupid, ignorant and/or malicious, then I really can't help you, and shouldn't waste any more words on you. Am I wrong in thinking this?

    See, Traditional Catholics admit the Crisis and the confusion. So we don't automatically condemn those who have taken other paths, though we might criticize those other paths. We know there is confusion, and we know the truth that when you "Strike the shepherd, the sheep will be dispersed." It's not the sheeps' fault.

    The Pope and Church authorities are divorced from Truth and the Faith itself in many cases. They are tearing down the Church with their own hands. This can't be denied, unless you're in the business of self-deception. (Count me out on the self-deception; I have a love affair with the truth!) We don't have to depose the Pope, but we certainly can't join in the madness. We have to keep our distance, lest we ourselves lose the Faith. That is HUMILITY, not Pride. To place our souls in danger willingly would be the sin of Presumption -- that we are stronger than those 95% of Catholics who have lost the Faith.

    I hope this helps.

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #2 on: June 14, 2016, 01:46:06 PM »
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  • Quote
    If you are willing (or even quick) to believe that ALL THOSE TRADITIONAL CATHOLICS during the past 50 years were either stupid, ignorant and/or malicious, then I really can't help you, and shouldn't waste any more words on you. Am I wrong in thinking this?


    Some might object, "Don't the Traditional Catholics oh-so-reluctantly, proudly, and happily assume ignorance, stupidity, etc. about the majority of mainstream Catholics?"

    The answer:

    That's different. The average Novus Ordo Catholic is just following his priest. He doesn't read much about the Faith, and if he does, it's some sentimental book that isn't specifically Catholic, or it's mostly filled with sentimental fluff, emotion, platitudes, etc.

    YES I'm willing to believe that "most" are busy with the cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and don't want to make "too big a deal" out of Religion. That is fallen human nature.

    As for the few Novus Ordo Catholics that the above description doesn't apply to, this description does apply: They trust too much in their priests and Church authorities. They fail to consider that the Freemasons could ever take over the Church and imbue it with Freemasonic principles. They are objectively ignorant of the Alta Vendita, the 20-century-long Jєωιѕн conspiracy against the Church, and other cօռspιʀαcιҽs against the Church.

    But to believe that ALL (not just some, but all) Traditional Catholics, the ones who want to be Catholic 24/7, the ones who want to go the extra mile to please God, the ones who fill their bookshelves with substantial Catholic books and read them a lot, the ones with deep, substantial prayer lives and who frequent the Sacraments -- I don't believe one can make a case that a huge group of hundreds of thousands of such people can all be wrong.

    To claim this, would be the same as claiming that truth can't be known.

    Most importantly, 100% of Traditional Catholics have, in a certain measure, proven their loyalty to God over human respect. They have all passed a certain test, which the best Novus Ordo Catholic in the world HAS NOT.

    Just by going to that "Trad chapel", that hotel room, or wherever they attend Mass, just by leaving the mainstream Conciliar Church to "do the right thing", they have demonstrated a certain strength: that they are serious about the truth, serious about God and serious about saving their souls.

    The most devout Novus Ordo Catholic in the world is lacking this. He is completely mainstream, and approved by all his peers.

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    Offline MyrnaM

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #3 on: June 14, 2016, 02:06:54 PM »
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  • I notice lately God is weeding out His garden, pray you won't be one of the weeds.
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Ladislaus

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #4 on: June 14, 2016, 03:58:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    The fact that he went from Sede to Novus Ordo actually doesn't surprise me. It's an old tactic of the devil. Push a man too far to the right, until he snaps all the way around to the extreme left.


    Nope.  Catholicism isn't about being somewhere in a left-right Hegelian paradigm.

    Sedevacantists believe that if these guys are popes then we must submit to them.  That's very reasonable ... and Catholic.  It's R&R that doesn't make sense, where you can claim that someone is pope and then refuse submission to him, to his Magisterium and Universal Discipline.


    Offline Prayerful

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #5 on: June 14, 2016, 04:02:06 PM »
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  • All you probably know this interview of 1977 with Archbishop Lefebvre, which the bishops of the time surpressed under threat of financial oblivion for the publisher, but I don't recall reading it. The Novus Ordo Mass does not carry the appropriate sense of Christ's sacrifice in propriation for the sinfulness of Man, makes salvation open to all rather than pro multis, obliterates Dogmas like the perpetual virginity of Our Lady. It is said to be valid, but I'm not sure of that. Anyhow the Archbishop talks of how limited Papal Infallibility is limited, and does not stretch to introducing a Mass (or service) heavily influenced by five Protestant pastors. It would seem a strange thing that a home aloner would be pushed to so dubious a remedy as attending a NOM. Most places have an extensive range of Mass chapel options, even diocesan Indult Masses, which while imperfect are far better than a NOM. It seems that way to me.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #6 on: June 14, 2016, 04:12:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Matthew
    The fact that he went from Sede to Novus Ordo actually doesn't surprise me. It's an old tactic of the devil. Push a man too far to the right, until he snaps all the way around to the extreme left.


    Nope.  Catholicism isn't about being somewhere in a left-right Hegelian paradigm.

    Sedevacantists believe that if these guys are popes then we must submit to them.  That's very reasonable ... and Catholic.  It's R&R that doesn't make sense, where you can claim that someone is pope and then refuse submission to him, to his Magisterium and Universal Discipline.



    I couldn't agree more!    :applause:
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline JohnAnthonyMarie

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #7 on: June 14, 2016, 04:52:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Prayerful
    All you probably know this interview of 1977 with Archbishop Lefebvre...


    Nice article.  Inspirational.

    Quote from: Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
    At this stage it is relevant to remind Catholics allover the world that obedience to the pope is not a primary virtue.

    The hierarchy of virtues starts with the three theological virtues of faith, hope and charity followed by the four cardinal virtues of justice, temperance, prudence and fortitude. Obedience is a derivative of the cardinal virtue of justice. Therefore it is far from ranking first in the hierarchy of virtues.
    Omnes pro Christo


    Offline PG

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 08:08:30 PM »
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  • ladislaus - "and catholic"?  You obviously do not know of the checks and balances that Christ instituted in his church.  There are limits to the papacy.  And, you are in denial, perhaps because you yourself are at an extreme.  Corners are no longer cozy, when you are all alone.  And, snakes cannot keep you warm.  

    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Clemens Maria

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #9 on: June 14, 2016, 09:20:40 PM »
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  • It's the ecclesiology of St. Robert Bellarmine (Doctor of the Church) vs. the banal on-the-spot ecclesiology of 20th century modernists and those traditionalists who place a high value on "recognition".  "Recognition" is the modern R&R version of "partial communion".

    In St. Robert's time you would have been hanged for saying you would not let the pope catechize your children.

    Offline Stubborn

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #10 on: June 15, 2016, 06:34:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Matthew
    The fact that he went from Sede to Novus Ordo actually doesn't surprise me. It's an old tactic of the devil. Push a man too far to the right, until he snaps all the way around to the extreme left.


    Nope.  Catholicism isn't about being somewhere in a left-right Hegelian paradigm.

    Sedevacantists believe that if these guys are popes then we must submit to them.  That's very reasonable ... and Catholic.  It's R&R that doesn't make sense, where you can claim that someone is pope and then refuse submission to him, to his Magisterium and Universal Discipline.


    Submitting to the pope is not the actual issue, the dogma states that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature "be subject to" the pope.

    It may not be much, but there is a difference between "submitting" and "being subject to".

    In this case, it seems like it's the difference between being a sede or not.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Prayerful

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #11 on: June 15, 2016, 08:56:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
    Quote from: Prayerful
    All you probably know this interview of 1977 with Archbishop Lefebvre...


    Nice article.  Inspirational.

    Quote from: Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
    At this stage it is relevant to remind Catholics allover the world that obedience to the pope is not a primary virtue.

    The hierarchy of virtues starts with the three theological virtues of faith, hope and charity followed by the four cardinal virtues of justice, temperance, prudence and fortitude. Obedience is a derivative of the cardinal virtue of justice. Therefore it is far from ranking first in the hierarchy of virtues.


    Archbishop Lefebvre states everything so clearly. No wonder the Conciliar Bishops threatened the publisher with financial oblivion, if he published it.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #12 on: June 15, 2016, 10:14:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: Prayerful
    Archbishop Lefebvre states everything so clearly.


    Well, Archbishop Lefebvre himself was confused.  He would go back and forth from basically declaring the Pope to be Antichrist to demanding that priests publicly acknowledge his legitimacy to being OK with either option.  Not to blame him, because no one can truly understand this crisis, but clarity hasn't been there.

    That's why pretty much anyone, the new SSPX and The Resistance and even sedevacantists, can all dig up +Lefebvre quotes to back their contrary positions.

    Offline Alexandria

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #13 on: June 15, 2016, 11:36:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Prayerful
    Archbishop Lefebvre states everything so clearly.


    Well, Archbishop Lefebvre himself was confused.  He would go back and forth from basically declaring the Pope to be Antichrist to demanding that priests publicly acknowledge his legitimacy to being OK with either option.  Not to blame him, because no one can truly understand this crisis, but clarity hasn't been there.

    That's why pretty much anyone, the new SSPX and The Resistance and even sedevacantists, can all dig up +Lefebvre quotes to back their contrary positions.


    It is true.  That's what he did - go back and forth.  But, who could blame him?  We still can't get it straight.  

    I think it is part of being Catholic, wanting to be in the Church with the Vicar of Christ.  Many of us have tried various contortions to do so to no avail.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    A letter from a Home Aloner
    « Reply #14 on: June 15, 2016, 12:41:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    But, who could blame him?


    No one.  Nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the Church.  Even the Dimonds, who are quick to condemn everyone, admit that they themselves were "confused" in the beginning and it took them time to come around to what they now believe to be the true position.  I've gone back and forth myself over and over again.  Only God knows the full truth of it.