Author Topic: A Cognitive Failure of Blindness (Read 7518 times)

Exilenomore · « **Reply #15 on:** May 28, 2013, 03:52:57 PM »

The assertions that the hierarchy would be "completely hidden" and that they are "doing nothing" for the salvation of souls have no basis at all. Just because we do not see them does not mean that there are no people who do or that these ecclesiastics are doing nothing.

It is actually modernist pseudo-philosophy to say that something does not exist because you do not see it right now.

Allow me to ask you a question: Do you believe that the Church is a perfect society?

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2013, 05:29:24 PM »

Quote from: Exilenomore

At the end of this crisis, the world will see that the Church had all this time been protected by God, and that all the lies that have been spread about her were just that; lies. And all will marvel at this Kingdom of God on earth, because any merely human society would have perished under such persecution that the Church has suffered. And when the apostate nations will again sing the paschal hymn, they will cry out with united voices that "there is a God in Israel!" (1 Samuel 17; 46)

Accepting this is how people will find peace in these times.

Exile,

This is a beautiful post but the world isn't believing lies about the Conciliar Church, the Conciliar Church is doing the lying and allowing the mainstream media, or if you prefer another term, the presses of the world, to help pass on the Conciliar lies to a less and less unwary public.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2013, 05:32:10 PM »

Exile,

I was there in the pews when an SSPX priest said that the Holy Church is a perfect society.

The novus ordo loves to brag about how the church is so very human and, being human, is plagued with problems.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #18 on:** May 29, 2013, 04:03:14 AM »

Capt.,

I have already clarified in this thread that I do not ascribe any legitimacy to the conciliar maffia, so I am not sure what you are trying to tell me. The Church as a body cannot worship falsely, nor profess false doctrine, so you are correct in refusing obedience to the imposters who are pretending to own the Vatican buildings today.

Quote from: Capt.

I was there in the pews when an SSPX priest said that the Holy Church is a perfect society.

Since the Church is a perfect society, where, according to Mr. Ruby and those who spread his writings on apostolicity, does at this very moment reside the right to elect the Supreme Pontiff? If their answer is that it resides in the irregular bishops to whom he ascribes formal apostolic succession, then what stops him from accepting 'Linus II' as 'pope', since all these irregular bishops had been invited to that event at Assisi from which he emerged as anti-pope (the event had been publicised all over the world), and as has been said, in Mr. Ruby's impossible situation, through natural law the right of election would have devolved upon them?

Those who had denied to come would have been guilty of schism for refusing to have a pope elected.

I am sure that Mr. Ruby agrees that 'Linus II' is an anti-pope, but Von Pentz is what his heretical thesis logically and ultimately leads to. I am not saying that he as a person is a heretic, but his doctrine on this matter is a legitimate son of the hussite heresies, and therefore it must be abandoned.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2013, 04:47:58 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Exilenomore
At the end of this crisis, the world will see that the Church had all this time been protected by God, and that all the lies that have been spread about her were just that; lies. And all will marvel at this Kingdom of God on earth, because any merely human society would have perished under such persecution that the Church has suffered. And when the apostate nations will again sing the paschal hymn, they will cry out with united voices that "there is a God in Israel!" (1 Samuel 17; 46)

Accepting this is how people will find peace in these times.

Hasn't the Church already perished if our traditional Catholic Bishops are not the valid hierarchy but the hierarchy is completely hidden from the world and has been for quite some time?

I'm not sure where else to look of the traditional Catholic Bishops are not it. They were consecrated by those who had the Apostolic Mandate. History had proven that the mandate can be implicit. Plus I believe Bishop Thuc had the permission to consecrate Bishops from Pius XII without the explicit mandate.

The Church is underground and our traditional Bishops are doing what Catholic Bishops do. Perpetuating Apostolic Succession through valid and licit consecration of Bishops. The first law of Faith is salvation of souls. If there is a secret hidden hierarchy somewhere they do not seem to concerned about the first law of Faith.

I'm not sure how anyone can insist on the contrary. I can see how both sides can be debated but I'm not sure how either side can insist they are correct with any sort of authority. Unless someone wants to deny that the mandate can be implicit and deny the historical facts with it.

Do you see the point I am trying to make?

I don't want to take the thread into a different topic, so it's ok if you answer to this question with a pm.

I read on another thread that Exorcisms fail when traditionalist Priests perform them, I think the title of that thread is "more exorcists".

I understand that for an exorcism to be successful, the Priest/Bishop must be validly ordained, and must have jurisdiction. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Wouldn't that be an indication that the Hierarchy of the Catholic Church is the so-called "Novus Ordo" Hierarchy, at least materialiter?

And unfortunately, there is no valid Hierarchy out side of it?

What is the solution?

Depose Francis I, and organize a public Catholic Trial with the support of at least part of that Hierarchy.

The charges would be many, but Heresy is the first. And all Popes since John XXIII until the present one should be declared guilty, defrocked to lay status, and then excommunicated.

Next, declare invalid everything since John XXIII, and roll back to where Pius XII left it.

My 2 Cents.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2013, 05:14:10 AM »

Quote from: DoubtingThomas

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: Exilenomore
At the end of this crisis, the world will see that the Church had all this time been protected by God, and that all the lies that have been spread about her were just that; lies. And all will marvel at this Kingdom of God on earth, because any merely human society would have perished under such persecution that the Church has suffered. And when the apostate nations will again sing the paschal hymn, they will cry out with united voices that "there is a God in Israel!" (1 Samuel 17; 46)

Accepting this is how people will find peace in these times.

Hasn't the Church already perished if our traditional Catholic Bishops are not the valid hierarchy but the hierarchy is completely hidden from the world and has been for quite some time?

I'm not sure where else to look of the traditional Catholic Bishops are not it. They were consecrated by those who had the Apostolic Mandate. History had proven that the mandate can be implicit. Plus I believe Bishop Thuc had the permission to consecrate Bishops from Pius XII without the explicit mandate.

The Church is underground and our traditional Bishops are doing what Catholic Bishops do. Perpetuating Apostolic Succession through valid and licit consecration of Bishops. The first law of Faith is salvation of souls. If there is a secret hidden hierarchy somewhere they do not seem to concerned about the first law of Faith.

I'm not sure how anyone can insist on the contrary. I can see how both sides can be debated but I'm not sure how either side can insist they are correct with any sort of authority. Unless someone wants to deny that the mandate can be implicit and deny the historical facts with it.

Do you see the point I am trying to make?

I don't want to take the thread into a different topic, so it's ok if you answer to this question with a pm.

I read on another thread that Exorcisms fail when traditionalist Priests perform them, I think the title of that thread is "more exorcists".

I understand that for an exorcism to be successful, the Priest/Bishop must be validly ordained, and must have jurisdiction. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Wouldn't that be an indication that the Hierarchy of the Catholic Church is the so-called "Novus Ordo" Hierarchy, at least materialiter?

And unfortunately, there is no valid Hierarchy out side of it?

What is the solution?

Depose Francis I, and organize a public Catholic Trial with the support of at least part of that Hierarchy.

The charges would be many, but Heresy is the first. And all Popes since John XXIII until the present one should be declared guilty, defrocked to lay status, and then excommunicated.

Next, declare invalid everything since John XXIII, and roll back to where Pius XII left it.

My 2 Cents.

Bishop McKenna has performed many successful exorcisms.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2013, 05:19:56 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Bishop McKenna has performed many successful exorcisms.

On the thread titled: "more exorcists", I read exactly the opposite.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2013, 06:00:58 AM »

One of the biggest faults of sedeprivationism is that it implies that there is no formal apostolic succession today. It is a very grave thing to proclaim that the hierarchical Church is not actual today, waiting to exist again when the conciliar assembly, founded by the communist and b'nai b'rith sects, will convert to the true religion, while pretending that the right to elect the Pope of the Catholic Church resides in that assembly in the mean time.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2013, 06:09:22 AM »

The true religion involves an actual ecclesiastical hierarchy, not an idea of a hierarchy which is not realised today.

The Creed tells us to believe that there is unam sanctam catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam in the visible world on this exact moment.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2013, 06:26:45 AM »

Here is an example of the materialiter/formaliter distinction in philosophy, for the sake of clarifying what it means exactly.

When you have an amount of marble, you have a statue of St. Paul materialiter. But it does not mean that it is already this statue in act. The statue does not exist yet, but it can exist if a sculptor, as the agent of movement, gives the marble the form of a statue of St. Paul through the movement of sculpting, so that it then becomes the statue formaliter.

Before it received this form, who would take you seriously if you said that the pile of marble was a statue? It was not a statue; it was formally a pile of marble, possessing the potentiality to become a statue. And the fact that it possessed this potentiality was what made it possible to say that it was a statue materialiter.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2013, 06:31:36 AM »

Quote from: Exilenomore

One of the biggest faults of sedeprivationism is that it implies that there is no formal apostolic succession today. It is a very grave thing to proclaim that the hierarchical Church is not actual today, waiting to exist again when the conciliar assembly, founded by the communist and b'nai b'rith sects, will convert to the true religion, while pretending that the right to elect the Pope of the Catholic Church resides in that assembly in the mean time.

Does it make sense to create an alternate/parallel hierarchy?

Is it correct to let heretics get away with it?

"it" means, hijacking the Catholic Church Hierarchy?

I am not arguing with, I want to have some things explained because frankly I don't see the point.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #26 on:** May 29, 2013, 06:39:36 AM »

Quote from: Exilenomore

The true religion involves an actual ecclesiastical hierarchy, not an idea of a hierarchy which is not realised today.

The Creed tells us to believe that there is unam sanctam catholicam et apostolicam ecclesiam in the visible world on this exact moment.

I think sometimes we expect things from the Church that were never promised.

I think a similar problem happened to the Jєωs from the old testament concerning the Messiah, they expected Him to be very strong, never humiliated, never captured, never tortured, etc...

And it turn out to be different.

Catholic Hierarchy has been hijacked, and Catholic Faith is being humiliated, betrayed, and tortured (referring to sacrileges at Mass). Maybe we expected the true Church to be very strong, but not in the same way that God meant it to be.

Don't stone me for saying it, I'm appealing to your intellectual honesty.

What do you think?

Exilenomore · « **Reply #27 on:** May 29, 2013, 07:04:25 AM »

Those who have made parallel 'hierarchies' are the conciliar imposters themselves, whose assembly was founded in the heart of Rome during the 1958 Conclave through the criminal activity of foreign influences. Those who make parallel 'hierarchies' are also they who pretend that they can transfer formal apostolicity to a group of irregular bishops, acting as if the Bark of St. Peter has sunk, and that they must thus build a human 'church' to replace it.

The only true path is that of the true Church which has existed in unbroken succession from the Apostles, the Church that will never taste death and whose virginity remains ever intact; she who has beheld empires being reduced to the dust of reminiscence, while she wandered through their ruins unscathed, meditating lovingly upon the words of her Divine Spouse that she would ever remain, and that her name would never be erased from the face of the earth. She is the queen of nations, the mistress of all peoples, and all the founts of true happiness the tribes of the earth find only in her.

The Lord has declared it, and never will He repent: "On your walls, Jerusalem, I have appointed watchmen..." (Isaias) And these watchmen will persist until the Bride of the Lamb will enter into the eternal glory to behold Him as He Is, Whom she has loved when she sojourned in this earthly vale, adorned with the harness of militancy.

The hierarchical Church must be in the metaphorical catacombs at present, truly existing today, holding the faith completely intact and doing what she can to reach as many souls as possible despite the persecutions of the ѕуηαgσgυє of satan.

And we must pray for her liberty, and do what we can to increase access to her, so that this crisis may soon be resolved.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #28 on:** May 29, 2013, 07:21:39 AM »

Quote from: DoubtingThomas

What do you think?

Sir, stones I do not wish to cast, but while you appear to suggest that I expect things from the Church which Christ has not promised, the truth is that you are neglecting the things that He has promised. I speak with much gravity on this subject because it requires it, and I am sure that you understand that we cannot make it up as we go while writing on this subject in the public sphere (and, I should note, neither in the private one), making ourselves potentially read by virtually everyone who has access to the internet.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #29 on:** May 29, 2013, 07:37:46 AM »

Quote from: Exilenomore

Those who have made parallel 'hierarchies' are the conciliar imposters themselves, whose assembly was founded in the heart of Rome during the 1958 Conclave through the criminal activity of foreign influences. Those who make parallel 'hierarchies' are also they who pretend that they can transfer formal apostolicity to a group of irregular bishops, acting as if the Bark of St. Peter has sunk, and that they must thus build a human 'church' to replace it.

Look, the Consecrations from the Thuc Line, and the Lefebvre Line are "hierarchies" that were not authorized by the Pope.

Granted, the Popes ruling then are/were heretics.

The rest, the "Novus Ordo" Bishops/Priests are a "hierarchy".

I don't believe there is a secret "Siri Line", I know some people do, but I don't.

Then we have to assume that one of those three (Thuc, Lefebvre, Novus Ordo) "hierarchies" is the real one.

I could speak about this in very abstract not-specific ways, but I prefer to see it from the practical angle.

I think when Paul VI wore the ephod, it was time to depose Him. Instead of doing that, "alternative/parallel hierarchies" were created. That was a mistake, not yours, not mine, but it was a mistake.

We are now living the consequences from that mistake.