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Author Topic: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance  (Read 3445 times)

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Offline saintbosco13

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A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
« on: April 11, 2018, 11:34:56 AM »
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    As most people know, this forum and others like it on the Internet have typically been run by people from the SSPX or Resistance. A common theme across all these forums has been to censor, silence, and ban sedevacantists as being "dogmatic" when they present their arguments. This "dogmatic" accusation is nothing but a complete novelty, not found in Catholic books, and prevents discussions from reaching their conclusion.

    The challenge I propose is for those in the SSPX or Resistance who really think their position represents true Catholicism, to go to FaithfulCatholics.com and present your case in a new discussion. FC is run by sedevacantists and does not believe in silencing the other side with the ridiculous "dogmatic" accusation. There you will be able to present your arguments openly and freely, as long as you present proof for what you say.

    Matthew, would love to see you on there where you do not have the convenience of the ban button. Let's see what you got.
     
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    Offline sedevacantist3

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #1 on: April 11, 2018, 09:05:58 PM »
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    • Dogmatic to the non sede means what exactly.  That we who hold the sede position and are certain of this brutal truth, or isn’t it that the sede who states non sedes go to hell, that is what makes one dogmatic? 
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    Online MaterDominici

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #2 on: April 12, 2018, 12:27:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: sedevacantist3 on April 11, 2018, 09:05:58 PM
    Dogmatic to the non sede means what exactly.  That we who hold the sede position and are certain of this brutal truth, or isn’t it that the sede who states non sedes go to hell, that is what makes one dogmatic?
    B
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    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #3 on: April 12, 2018, 12:44:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: sedevacantist3 on April 11, 2018, 09:05:58 PM
    Dogmatic to the non sede means what exactly.  That we who hold the sede position and are certain of this brutal truth, or isn’t it that the sede who states non sedes go to hell, that is what makes one dogmatic?
    Only Christ can condemn us to the eternal fires of Hell.
    Let us pray that through the mercy of God, we will all be saved.
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    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #4 on: April 12, 2018, 05:30:00 AM »
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    • I just went to that [misnamed] site, can't read a thing without signing up. Just as well, all you're really after is arguments for the sake of arguing.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

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    Offline sedevacantist3

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #5 on: April 12, 2018, 08:11:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Regina on April 12, 2018, 12:44:35 AM
    Only Christ can condemn us to the eternal fires of Hell.
    Let us pray that through the mercy of God, we will all be saved.
    I am allowed to say the Jєω who dies a Jєω rejecting Christ has condemned himself to hell. Are you saying you can’t make this type of statement?
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 11:00:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on April 12, 2018, 05:30:00 AM
    I just went to that [misnamed] site, can't read a thing without signing up. Just as well, all you're really after is arguments for the sake of arguing.

    That site is indeed misnamed.

    I agree that arguing for the sake of arguing is really what certain sedes are all about, though some of them can be reasonable.

    If by some miracle the Crisis were to end, and we would be given a good pope, what would the more extreme sedes do? They would have to find something else to argue about, or find fault even with a good pope.

    A revolutionary is always in search of a revolution. Pope Francis is a prime example of this. As are the extreme sedes. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Samuel

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 01:46:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 12, 2018, 11:00:06 AM
    That site is indeed misnamed.

    I agree that arguing for the sake of arguing is really what certain sedes are all about, though some of them can be reasonable.

    If by some miracle the Crisis were to end, and we would be given a good pope, what would the more extreme sedes do? They would have to find something else to argue about, or find fault even with a good pope.

    A revolutionary is always in search of a revolution. Pope Francis is a prime example of this. As are the extreme sedes.

    You're spot on here.

    Most sede's are so sure of themselves that whatever you say can only be more proof that you're wrong. It's a frame of mind they got themselves into and only a miracle can shake them out of it.

    So, unless you're a miracle worker, stay away from that site.

    PS: I speak from experience.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 03:16:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Samuel on April 12, 2018, 01:46:21 PM
    You're spot on here.

    Most sede's are so sure of themselves that whatever you say can only be more proof that you're wrong. It's a frame of mind they got themselves into and only a miracle can shake them out of it.

    So, unless you're a miracle worker, stay away from that site.

    PS: I speak from experience.

    Yes, I think you're right - only a miracle can shake them out of it. 

    Don't worry - I won't be participating on that site. I have about as much interest in doing that as I would be in participating on a Mormon or Scientology site. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Samuel

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 04:18:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: saintbosco13 on April 12, 2018, 04:06:57 PM

    So what you are saying is, "You sedevacantists shouldn't be so sure of your position, since we can't be so sure of ours". If SSPXers were sure of their position there would be some people responding to this challenge right now, but you will notice that no one is!
     

    Because it is a futile exercise. In order to have a fruitful discussion you need two sides that are objective and willing to consider the other side, as well as respond to the arguments put forward without all the nasty techniques (diversion, quote bombing, ignoring, distorting, etc..). It is my experience that the type of people who are hot headed, emotional, opinionated and overly self sure are exactly the ones that are attracted to sedevacantism. I don't claim that all sedes are like that, but the majority of them are. It is useless to talk to these kind of people, especially in a place where they are in the majority and where a certain mob mentality takes over.
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    Offline saintbosco13

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 04:40:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: Samuel on April 12, 2018, 04:18:03 PM
    Because it is a futile exercise. In order to have a fruitful discussion you need two sides that are objective and willing to consider the other side, as well as respond to the arguments put forward without all the nasty techniques (diversion, quote bombing, ignoring, distorting, etc..). It is my experience that the type of people who are hot headed, emotional, opinionated and overly self sure are exactly the ones that are attracted to sedevacantism. I don't claim that all sedes are like that, but the majority of them are. It is useless to talk to these kind of people, especially in a place where they are in the majority and where a certain mob mentality takes over.
     
    This is really a pathetic response. What you are doing is assuming ALL Catholics who hold the sedevacantist position are hotheaded, emotional, opinionated, overly self sure, and that they use nasty techniques (an absurd assumption), then you are bowing out of all discussion based on that absurd assumption. That's like a little kid refusing to go out and play in the schoolyard because "the other kids are going to be mean to me". Toughen up!
     
    If you held the truth and you knew you did, you wouldn't be worried in the slightest about these things.
     
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    Offline Samuel

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 05:02:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: saintbosco13 on April 12, 2018, 04:40:36 PM

    This is really a pathetic response. What you are doing is assuming ALL Catholics who hold the sedevacantist position are hotheaded, emotional, opinionated, overly self sure, and that they use nasty techniques (an absurd assumption), then you are bowing out of all discussion based on that absurd assumption. That's like a little kid refusing to go out and play in the schoolyard because "the other kids are going to be mean to me". Toughen up!
     
    If you held the truth and you knew you did, you wouldn't be worried in the slightest about these things.
     

    Do you know the definition of an idiot? Here it is anyway: "An idiot is someone who repeats the same action over and over, expecting a different result each time."  I'd rather not go down that road.

    Also, those who presume they are strong enough to search for and argue with those who are in error, run the risk of becoming infected with the same errors. God often punishes such presumption. So, I will stick to following Providence, rather than trying to lead It. If God puts a sede in my path I will happily discuss his problem with him, but apart from that, I have no desire to jump into a gang of sedes in the schoolyard.

    But if you really want to prove your own toughness and recruit a few more members while you're at it, you can "strut your stuff" here, this forum allows it.
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 05:34:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: sedevacantist3 on April 12, 2018, 08:11:22 AM
    I am allowed to say the Jєω who dies a Jєω rejecting Christ has condemned himself to hell. Are you saying you can’t make this type of statement?
    We will not know for sure if someone has sincerely repented and if the Theotokos has interceded to Christ God that his soul may be saved through someone's heartfelt prayers. In the afterlife, no doubt, we will rejoice with all the saints that someone was able to repent through our simple prayers as there will be much rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents.

    Where there is life, there is hope, but the soul who has hardened his heart and has committed the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be saved neither in this life nor in the afterlife for there is no grace of repentance given to such a soul.

    I met a soul who asked for my prayers, but he admitted that I would be wasting my time to pray for him.  He said that he was having nightmares every night driving him to despair not only because he had denied Christ, but also because he might have committed the sin against the Holy Spirit. I thought he might be scrupulous at first, but he told me that when he tried to go to a priest for confession, he could not even enter the church. It was like a hand prevented him from doing so. He was driven to despair and thoughts of ѕυιcιdє to end the daily nightmares of the screams he heard in hell. I lost contact with him.

    Many Jєωs during the time of Christ and even in our times have hardened their hearts and have committed the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying that Christ is the devil or that He is the son of a devil, and/or that Christ works miracles through the devil. These will not be saved.
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    Lord have mercy.

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 08:09:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: saintbosco13 on April 12, 2018, 11:43:43 AM

    The true reason they cry "dogmatic" is because we are so confident in our position and can prove it. They can't stand to hear that so they put on a big act on how they are SO offended for being told they are wrong. It's pathetic and is nothing but pride.
     
    You need a dose of humility. "We", "our" "They" "they", "they" "they", "pathetic" 

    I honestly don't think you care for the truth. Of course you would deny that. In fact, I think you suffer from a childish love of argumentation. 

     
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    Offline cathman7

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    Re: A challenge for those in SSPX or Resistance
    « Reply #14 on: April 12, 2018, 08:11:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: saintbosco13 on April 12, 2018, 07:51:43 PM

    You give this advice and then hang out on Cathinfo where error is allowed to run rampant ?? I think you need to practice what you preach.
     
    Again, what kind of reply is this? I can almost guarantee that you are a new convert to either Tradition in general or sedevacantism in particular. I will also bet that you HAVE NOT made any sort of reasonable study of these thorny points of theology. 
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