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Author Topic: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."  (Read 662 times)

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Offline XavierSem

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70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
« on: September 06, 2018, 04:12:05 AM »
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  •  What do you all think? Do you believe what these exorcisms relate? http://www.jesusmariasite.org/exorcism-human-demon-judas-speaks/

    Quote
    Quote
    The book essentially exposes the remarks and gestures made by a possessed woman in Switzerland during 1975‑1978. Speaking through the possessed woman, the demons were forced to tell the truth by Our Lady under the Solemn Church Exorcism, which was witnessed by the following priests who have all expressed their conviction of the authenticity of the revelations made by the demons upon the order of the Blessed Virgin.

     1. Abbot Albert‑l`Arx, Niederbuchorten

    2. Abbot Arnold Elig, Ramiswil

    3. Abbot Ernest Fischer, Missionary, Gossau (St.‑Gall).

    4. Rev. Father Pius Gervasi, O.S.B., Disentis

    5. Abbot Karl Holdener, Ried

    6. Rev. Father Gregoire Meyer, ‑ Trimbach

    7. Rev. Father Robert Rinderer, C.P.P.S., Auw

    8. Abbot Louis Veillard, Cerneux‑Pequignot

    All eight priests are Swiss, except Father E. Fischer, a German. All participated in the exorcisms except Father G. Meyer who was spiritual director of the possessed woman. Two other French priests also participated in the exorcisms.

    ..ECÔNE IS ON THE GOOD ROAD
    Many are searching for it.

    J: Ecône will triumph.

    E: What is that you said? Repeat that, Judas Iscariot! Who were you speaking about? In the name of Jesus, repeat, it, tell the truth and nothing but the truth!

    J: After a long struggle, Ecône will triumph.

    E: Speak in the name of Jesus!

    J: Ecône is on the unique good road.

    E: Is that the truth? Is it Heaven who said that? Speak, in the name of Jesus!

    J: When I say: the good road I do not wish to say that there is nobody else on the good road; but the road which Ecône follows is singularly good. That is what we mean. There are not many roads which are good, but there are many people who are on the good road. Ecône is on the good road and many people do not recognize Ecône are searching for the truth, and so they also are on the good road.

    E: Continue, in the name..., say what you must say!

    J: Archbishop Mgr. Lefebvre will still have a great deal to suffer, but he is good.

    E: Continue, in the name... say what you must say.

    E: Is the liturgy he follows good? Tell the truth, in the name of Jesus!

    J: The liturgy he follows is the only good one.

    E: Is this the truth, in the name of Jesus?

    J: It is the complete truth.

    E: In the name of the Most Holy Trinity, have you lied?

    J: No! It is the complete truth.

    E: Where does it come from? Who ordered you to say that? Speak, in the name...!

    J: It is She (he points upward) who says it; it is Those up there Who say it. The truth comes from on High. They, up there, do not like the new liturgy. In any case, the old Missal did not need to be modified... I am saying all of this against my will (he cries and sighs)
    "And as to yourself, tell them that because you are imperfect, weak and infirm, you stand in need of Communion." (Introduction to the Devout Life)

    Offline poche

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 04:36:54 AM »
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  • The Devil is the Father of Lies.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 05:33:26 AM »
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  • What do you all think? Do you believe what these exorcisms relate? http://www.jesusmariasite.org/exorcism-human-demon-judas-speaks/

    On that page they say:

    Quote
    Judas Isacariot, the fallen Apostle turned into a human demon.


    Judas Isacariot turning into a demon would be a transsubstantiation. The Church never taught such nonsense. The rest of the content is probably nonsense, too.
    It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 05:39:06 AM »
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  • Why would a human demon be impossible?  Assuming this conversation/exorcism were real, I see no problem.  

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 06:08:47 AM »
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  • Why would a human demon be impossible?  Assuming this conversation/exorcism were real, I see no problem.  

    Demons are fallen angels, thus a "human demon" would be human turned into an angel. But humans do not turn into angels, just like they don't turn into stones, or trees, or monkeys. All humans will stay humans until judgement day and in all eternity.

    The idea that a human might turn into an angel or demon is superstition.
    It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 07:01:38 AM »
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  • I think you're taking that description too literally.  I took it to mean that Judas is so tormented and possessed that he's "like a demon".  Had they just called him a demon, I'd agree with you.  Adding the word "human" to demon means that he's still human, just demon-acting. 

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #6 on: September 06, 2018, 07:32:13 AM »
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  • I think you're taking that description too literally.  I took it to mean that Judas is so tormented and possessed that he's "like a demon".  Had they just called him a demon, I'd agree with you.  Adding the word "human" to demon means that he's still human, just demon-acting.

    Judas is in hell and is neither a demon nor like a demon possessing and tormenting people on earth and talking to exorcists.

    The idea that a human in hell could possess men on earth like a demon is superstitious.
    It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 07:44:41 AM »
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  • Judas is in hell and is neither a demon nor like a demon possessing and tormenting people on earth and talking to exorcists.

    The idea that a human in hell could possess men on earth like a demon is superstitious.

    I don't see why it couldn't happen if God were to allow it.

    As for being called a "demon", that doesn't have to be understood as a term for fallen angel; it could refer to some immaterial spirit that's interacting with the material world.

    I don't have any problem with this in principle.

    Problem is that the devil is a liar, and the invocation of Our Lord and Our Lady is not a strict guarantee that he isn't lying.


    Offline Struthio

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 08:46:45 AM »
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  • I don't see why it couldn't happen if God were to allow it.

    A man (or the soul of a man, or the spirit of a man which is a function of his soul) does not have the abilities of a demon, he is e.g. not able to control the body of a (different) man. God would have to change the man's nature, a sort of a transsubstantiation turning the man into an angel or into another being equipped with the ability to control bodies. He sure could do that, but it would imply that (in our case) Judas Iscariot would cease to exist. The demon would not be Judas Iscariot, but a different being.
    It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #9 on: September 06, 2018, 10:29:04 AM »
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  • What do you all think? Do you believe what these exorcisms relate? http://www.jesusmariasite.org/exorcism-human-demon-judas-speaks/

    Quote

    I think this is a fraudulent transcript and what you gave is being used for SSPX propaganda purposes.

    If you study the text, you'll know why.

    BTW, newbie, are you with the SSPX ?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 12:56:59 PM »
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  • Hello. Yes, I am SSPX. I am still working, but I will be a pre-seminarian soon, and will be going to seminary shortly after that. I firmly support the SSPX and believe indeed that Econe will triumph in the end. But I also believe all traditional Catholics are on the same side, and we should be praying and working hard for the ultimate end goal of restoration in Rome, through a holy and traditional Pope.

    In the Gospel, we see demons forced to confess that Jesus is the Son of God (cf. Mk 1:24, Luk 4:34). And this is well known in Church history also, for e.g. the demons were forced by the Mother of God to confess the power of the Rosary, before St. Dominic and several other witnesses. "Saint Dominic had hardly finished this prayer when he saw the Blessed Virgin near at hand, surrounded by a multitude of angels. She struck the possessed man with a golden rod that she held and said: "Answer my servant Dominic at once." (Remember, the people neither saw nor heard Our Lady, but only Saint Dominic.) "Then listen well you Christians; the Mother of Jesus Christ is all powerful and she can save her servants from falling into hell. She is the Sun which destroys the darkness of our wiles and subtlety. It is she who uncovers our hidden plots, breaks our snares and makes our temptations useless and ineffectual." http://www.how-to-pray-the-rosary-everyday.com/demontfort.html something they absolutely didn't want to do, and tried to resist for some time.

    To the final objection, there are exorcists who say damned souls may sometimes be permitted to exercise influence over other souls. It is certainly a rare case, but not unheard of. Ven. Mary of Agreda says the punishment of Judas in hell exceeds the punishment of many demons. It may be as part of that that God may permit him to influence souls and then be punished by the exorcism removing him.
    "And as to yourself, tell them that because you are imperfect, weak and infirm, you stand in need of Communion." (Introduction to the Devout Life)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #11 on: September 06, 2018, 01:24:46 PM »
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  • A man (or the soul of a man, or the spirit of a man which is a function of his soul) does not have the abilities of a demon, he is e.g. not able to control the body of a (different) man. God would have to change the man's nature, a sort of a transsubstantiation turning the man into an angel or into another being equipped with the ability to control bodies. He sure could do that, but it would imply that (in our case) Judas Iscariot would cease to exist. The demon would not be Judas Iscariot, but a different being.

    It's not defined what is is about angelic nature that can "control" a body which also makes it impossible for a human soul to do the same.  After all, do we not control our own bodies when we are in them?  Also, what says he wasn't cooperating with an actual demon during this possession?  You're grasping at straws.

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #12 on: September 06, 2018, 09:12:57 PM »
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  • It's not defined what is is about angelic nature that can "control" a body which also makes it impossible for a human soul to do the same.  After all, do we not control our own bodies when we are in them?

    There is an infallible definition that the human soul is the form of the human body (hylemorphism). A human body has one form only. It is absurd to imagine two forms, one ordinary, and the other "taking over control".

    The relation between soul and body of a man is different from a demon possessing a man. The spirit of a man is a function of the soul and not a separate substance, while a demon is a spirit which is a substance on its own. An angel is not "something like a soul".


    Also, what says he wasn't cooperating with an actual demon during this possession?

    Then the demon is not Judas and is lying. I generally prefer to not trust lying demons or websites promoting such.


    @Incredulous
    Do you really think that managers in Menzingen think that Judas-demons predicting Ecône's triumph match their branding?
    It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

    Offline JoeZ

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #13 on: September 06, 2018, 09:36:23 PM »
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  • J: The liturgy he follows is the only good one


    Doesn't this exclude even Eastern Rite liturgies? Sounds fishy to me.
    Pray the Holy Rosary.

    Offline poche

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    Re: 70s Exorcism: "After a long struggle, Econe will triumph."
    « Reply #14 on: September 06, 2018, 10:38:22 PM »
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  • Why would a human demon be impossible?  Assuming this conversation/exorcism were real, I see no problem.  
    Human demons in a strict sense are not possible because the nature of demons is angelic. They are fallen angels. Because of their angelic nature they are incapable of incarnation.  

     

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